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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1997 > Nov > Nov 22

Re: Kenneth Arnold's testimony

From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 13:18:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:24:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Kenneth Arnold's testimony

> From: fergus@ukraine.corp.mot.com [George Fergus]
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:41:28 -0600 (CST)
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kenneth Arnold's testimony

> > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:01:09 -0800
> > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich)
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Kenneth Arnold's testimony

> > The mirror like flashes seem to rule out birds.

> > However, let's assume geese.  How fast can the fly?  60 mph?

> > That is 1 mile/minute.  Arnold was flying approximately
> > perpendicular to the UFOs flight path.  He timed the UFOs for
> > about 2 minutes. so the flight of geese could have been about 2
> > miles in that.  What about tail winds?  Arnold comments on the
> > great flying conditions.  If he had cross-winds, they were not so
> > great.

> > So the length of the base line distance is two miles and Arnold
> > is approaching the flight path at a 90 degree angle.  For
> > simplicity, put Arnold on the prependicular bisector of that the
> > 2 mile baseline. The objects swept through around 80 degrees of
> > angular displacement in that two minutes.  Well, plotting
> > Arnold's approximate position on a map of Washington state shows
> > about that angle between the two land marks he cites.  Again for
> > simplicity's sake say that the angular displacement was 90
> > degrees.  Okay, so Arnold is now one mile from the flight path.
> > If we are dealing with geese, he should have crossed the flight
> > path during his observation.

> > Okay, Arnold and the geese were not standing still which
> > influences the how much of the angle the geese swept through.
> > The closer he gots to the geese's flight path the greater the
> > angle seems.  Still he should have crossed their flight path.

> > The actual displacement of the geese is only two miles.  The
> > angular displacement argues that Arnold must be very close to
> > their flight path.  He should either recognized geese or cross
> > their path.  Now if the distance the objects traveled in two
> > minutes is much greater than geese can fly, then you can start
> > moving the the objects much farther away from Arnold.  Geese
> > don't seem to work.

> > Well, maybe, despite the comments about the flight conditions,
> > they did have a huge tail wind, so the baseline was much longer.

> > Okay, fine.  However, once Arnold turns to follow the objects he
> > also has the advantage of the tail wind so he should, if they
> > were geese, be able to see he was overhauling them.  Not geese,
> > again.

> Also, wouldn't birds in June usually be flying back north, not
> flying south?

Since I am not an ornithologist, I am not sure where birds would be
flying in June.  I doubt that they would be migrating south.
However, from my research for Project 1947, I have found birds and
geese mistaken for UFOs flying in any number of directions.

> But since this thread refuses to die I'll add my 2 cents of wild
> speculation:

George take you two cents back its counterfeit!  You need a map
and copy of Arnold's sighting report.


I am using the ones on James Easton's site

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/arnold2.htm

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/arnold.htm

so I don't have to retype this stuff.  (Thanks to John Powell
and James Easton for posting these.)

Next get out the map of Washington connecting Mineral and Yakima
you get an almost West to East line.  Connecting Mt. Rainier to Mt.
Adams you get, by eyeball, about 160 or 170 degrees, approximately
north to south line.

> Arnold is annoyed by a strange flash and tries to see where it
> came from.  He turns the plane, looking, until he spots something
> ahead that looks like a group of planes.  His heading is now
> north rather than east.

Arnold is heading east towards Yakima having made a turn at
Mineral, Washington.

From Bruce Maccabee's report:  "He was near Mineral, Washington,
about 22 miles west-southwest of Mt. Rainier and Yakima was about
80 miles ahead of him along a flight path that would take him just
about 12 miles south of peak of Mt. Rainier. He leveled out onto
his new flight path he was at approximately a 9,200 ft altitude.
His sighting began within a minute or two of the turn. Sentences
and paragraphs taken from his Air Force letter (11) are preceded
by (L) and statements from his book (10) are preceded by (B)."

>He sees that the objects are moving to
> his right, and decides to see how fast they are going, not
> realizing that it is actually a flock of birds flying north and
> their apparent southward motion against the distant mountains is
> simply due to his own airspeed.

No, George none of what you say is correct.  The objects are
flying about north to south.

Arnold speaking this time(L) "The air was so smooth that day
that it was a real pleasure flying and, as most pilots do, when
the air is smooth and they are flying at a higher altitude, I
trimmed out my airplane in the direction of Yakima, which was
almost directly east of my position and simply sat in my plane
observing the sky and terrain.

(L)" I observed a chain of nine peculiar looking aircraft flying
from north to south at approximately 9,500 ft  elevation and
going, seemingly, in a definite direction of about 170 degrees."


> He determines that these planes
> are moving incredibly fast, and decides to get a better look by
> turning the plane completely around so that it is now heading
> south in the direction he thinks they are flying, and he opens
> his left window.

No, George.  If he is heading *south* Mt Rainier is to his rear
in the north, and he can not watch the objects pass from Mt.
Rainier to Mt. Adams and have a meaningful measurement of the time
they took. The baseline is Mt. Rainer to Mt. Adams.  He will not
be able to see the last object start at Mt. Rainier and pass Mt.
Adams if his plane is going north to south.  He would also closing
and depart effects in his determination of the speed.  Even Captain
Georgory and Hynek would have realized this in 1956 when they came
up with the meaningless "inconsistancies" statement.


> However, since he is now actually heading in
> the opposite direction from the birds, he passes them and after
> a brief closeup they quickly disappear from view.

If he is going south and the objects are going south, he does
not see them going in the oppostite direction.  The last object
disappears in the vincity of  Mt. Adams.   George, you need
read Arnold's account and look at a map before you stick your
two cents in.

His distance and timing estimates only make sense if his
flight path is perpendicular to the objects path.

> But he could
> definitely discern that they had no tails, since from his point
> of view they would have been flying backwards.  He then resumes
> his eastward journey.

--
Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.iufog.org/project1947/



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