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From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:23:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:27:32 -0400
Subject: HOT GOSSIP UK - July 98

Hot Gossip UK Magazine JULY

The Unexplained Section
Edited by Georgina Bruni
An Interview with Nick Redfern
An Interview with David Morehouse

This month Iíve had a little help from other researchers. Iíd
like to thank President of the Staffordshire UFO Group, Irene
Bott, for contributing the interview with Nick Redfern. Iíd
also like to thank researcher Richard Conway for his
contribution of the interview with David Morehouse.


Nick Redfern is the author of COVERT AGENDA and THE F.B.I.
FILES. Iíll be reviewing Nickís book in another issue of Hot
Gossip UK, but suffice to say for now - that Iíve really enjoyed
reading both his publications and I highly recommend them.

THE NICK REDFERN INTERVIEW - Interviewer Irene Bott.

IB: Nick, I am sure many people interested in the UFO subject
will be aware that in TVís THE X FILES, Mulder and Scully
investigate FOs and paranormal phenomena for the FBI. Are you
saying in your book that THE X FILES is not entirely fiction?

NR: Yes, absolutely. The situation is this: the FBI have
declassified approximately 3,000 pages of previously - withheld
files on UFOs and associated mysteries which cover the period
1947 to the early 1990s. More importantly, many of the real
FBIís UFO files reflect to quite an astonishing degree the sorts
of things discussed in THE X FILES.

IB: What do you mean by that?

NR: Well, perhaps I should start at the beginning. In 1947, when
sightings of UFOs - or flying discs and flying saucers, as they
were known at the time -began to be reported in large numbers
throughout the USA, the military approached the FBI with a view
to obtaining their assistance in both interviewing UFO witnesses
to try and determine if the people were genuine, mentally
disturbed, or trying to put over propaganda, and investigating
UFO sightings in general. The FBI werenít adverse to this;
however, the boss of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, would only agree
to get involved if it was on a level which would put the FBI on
an equal footing with the military when it came to investigating
and collating UFO data.

IB: What do the FBIís early UFO files tell us?

NR: OK. Itís clear from the FBIís files of mid 1947, that within
the FBI itself there were as many differing opinions regarding
the origins of the UFO mystery as there are amongst the civilian
UFO research community today! To give you an example, there was
a great deal of concern within the FBI that UFOs were possibly
the product of the Soviet Union, being based on classified
technology captured from the Nazis at the end of the Second
World War. Similarly, there were those FBI agents who suspected
that the U.S. military itself was responsible for the Saucers,
and this was some type of super - secret American Government
project. And, of course, there were those in the FBI who
favoured the alien theory - that we were being visited by
creatures form other worlds.

IB: Can you give a few examples of the early reports which the
FBI received?

NR: Sure. One such report concerned an employee of the military
who, in July 1947, had seen overflying a particular air base
three UFOs travelling at an impressive speed; more impressive,
however, was the fact that the UFOs were circular in shape and
one of them seemed to be Ďrollingí or Ďrotatingí in the sky as
it went along. Similarly, in the following month, the FBI picked
up on an incident involving a former Army Air Corps pilot who
reported seeing - and Iíll quote from the official report here -
Ďa bluish white, flaming object over Philadelphia. And this is
something reflected in many of the early reports which the FBI
received. Most of the witnesses were highly qualified people. To
give you a further example, also in August 1947, no less than
twelve UFOs were seen flying in formation over Twin Falls,
Idaho, and once again there were credible observers, including
serving police officers with the Twin Fall Police Department.
More importantly, the witnesses were practically unanimous in
their belief that what they saw were - again, to quote the
official FBI files - Ďilluminated flying saucersí. So these are
the types of reports which the FBI received in the late 1940ís
and which led them to believe that something real and very
strange was taking place.

IB: Can you give us a few examples of the sorts of reports and
investigations which the FBI found itself involved in during the

NR: Yeah. There were several UFO events which concerned and took
up some considerable time on the part of the FBI in the 1950ís.

From the late 40's through to the early 50's, the FBI was
heavily implicated in something called Project Twinkle - a
project designed to monitor and identify strange, green fireball
- type objects which were being repeatedly seen in the vicinity
of U.S. atomic energy installations in New Mexico, and at a
later date in other parts of the country. Interestingly enough,
official FBI papers detail a number of soundly argued reasons
why the fireballs weren't natural phenomena; and in my book I
speculate that this was possibly an attempt on the part of the
UFO intelligence to monitor our early atomic energy research.

What else was the FBI involved in apart from Project Twinkle in
the 1950's?

NR:All sorts of things. As you know, in June and July 1952,
there were major UFO encounters in and around the Washington DC
area, and UFOs were seen by pilots - both civil and military -
and UFOs were tracked on both airborne and ground radar. Well,
following these encounters, the FBI demanded an up-dated
briefing from the Air Force - not just on the Washington
sightings but on the UFO subject in general. And the results of
that briefing make for very, very interesting reading.

IB: In what way?

NR: The FBI were informed officially in 1952 by the Air Force
that there was a percentage of all UFO reports which simply
defied explanation and which originated with credible people
such as military pilots. More importantly, the FBI was informed
that in a number of those cases there was additional back-up
from ground observers and radar traces. So it's clear that this
was an admittance to the FBI from the military that unknown
objects were violating U.S. airspace and were being seen in the
air at exactly the same time that they were being tracked on
radar. I'll quote you here a very pertinent statement made to
the FBI by the Air Force in that briefing: 'Some military
officials are seriously considering the possibility of
interplanetary ships.' To me, that speaks volumes.

IB: What else can you tell us about that time period?

NR: One case which springs to mind is that of someone described
in the FBI's files as a Miss Richards who saw a UFO - described
by the FBI as being 25 feet from the ground, appeared to be
spinning, was bright as though containing a series of lights in
a zigzagging pattern and was at least as wide as the highway -
at very close quarters in 1956 whilst driving along a public
highway with her fianc=E9e. What was important about this case
was that the witness was actually in the employ of the FBI at
the Washington DC headquarters and was described as being one of
the FBI best employees! Needless to say, there is a substantial
amount of paperwork on this case.

IB: Weren't some of the so-called Contactees like George Adamksi
and George Van Tassel investigated by the FBI in the 1950's and

NR: That's right. Adamski is the subject of an FBI file which is
close on 100 pages in length; whilst Van Tassel's file amounts
to about 200 pages. Again, FBI agents went to extraordinary
lengths to inform themselves of the claims of Adamski, Van
Tassel and a number of the other contactees including George
Williamson and Truman Bethurum. Now, today, it's quite
unfashionable to talk about human-like aliens from Venus who
desired an end to the arms race etc - and this was a staple part
of contactee lore - but the FBI were heavily concerned by the
claims of the contactees. The FBI, for example, were well
acquainted with Adamski's claims about meeting aliens in the
desert; and regarding Van Tassel, would dispatch agents to
attend his lectures and conferences. In fact, it's quite
astonishing just how well informed the FBI were and there are
reams of files which I've reproduced in the book detailing the
FBI's knowledge of where people such as Adamski claimed the
aliens originated, why they were here and even the type of
government they allegedly had!

IB:This takes us through to the 1960's, doesn't it?

NR:Yes, it does.

IB:We know that the U.S. Air Force officially, at least got out
of the UFO subject with the close of Project Blue Book in 1969.
Did the FBI do the same?

NR:Largely, yes. But there was another mystery waiting in the
wings for them - namely the cattle mutilations. For decades,
numerous reports have surfaced throughout North America where
cattle have been found mutilated and killed under very strange
circumstances - blood and organs have been removed by someone or
something with presumed surgical skills. There have even been
reports where the animals organs have been removed with
laser-type technology. Most important of all, there are many
accounts on record where UFOs, black helicopters, and even alien
creatures have been seen in the vicinity of mutilation sites and
I cite in the book the testimony of those who suspect that the
cattle mutilations are the result of some type of alien
harvesting operation.

IB: Are there many FBI files on cattle mutilations?

NR:Oh, yes. About 400 pages at least; and this is just the
declassified material. There are literally dozens of such
reports on file with the FBI which originated with a number of
U.S. state police departments which, as far as I'm concerned,
fully confirm that the cattle mutilations are not the work of
predators, as some have suggested.

IB:Can you give an example?

NR:One such New Mexico State Police report which springs to mind
dates from 1976 and includes all the staple parts of a classic
animal mutilation including: the discovery of a dead and
mutilated cow; strange pod marks found on the ground as if
something had followed the cow; raised radiation readings; the
removal from the cow's body of vital organs; the discovery at
the site of some strange liquid which defied official
examination; and most interesting of all, a scorched area of
ground which gave every impression that some type of structured
object had landed at the site. Now, I would fully agree with
people who say that this sounds bizarre; but the key point is
that this all comes from official files released by the FBI.

IB: We've seen that the FBI received a large number of good
quality UFO reports over the years - not to mention the cattle
mutilation files of the 70's - but what of the claims about
crashed UFOs? Are there any reports in the FBI files of crashed
UFOs, dead aliens and so on

NR: Probably more than you would imagine! There is a very
interesting hand -written entry in one of the 1947 files from J.
Edgar Hoover complaining that the military wouldn't allow the
FBI access to a recovered flying disc and this is almost
certainly a reference to the UFO recovered at Roswell.
Similarly, in the early 1950's the FBI went to extraordinary
lengths to try and determine the truth surrounding the alleged
crash and recovery by the military of a UFO at Aztec, New
Mexico. Now, the Aztec crash has today been largely discredited;
however, the story does include many of the key ingredients of
Roswell, such as: the crashed UFO, small, dead alien bodies
recovered at the crash site and on. The FBI also picked up on
numerous rumours doing the rounds amongst the military in
Washington to the effect that, in the 1950's, the U.S.
Government had acquired the remains of three crashed UFOs and
their crews. As far as crashed UFOs and the FBI are concerned,
things went pretty much quiet then until the late 1980's when
the Majestic 12 documents surfaced from an anonymous - and
presumed insider source.

IB:Can you expand on this?

NR:Yeah, no problem. The MJ12 papers are essentially a group of
documents which purport to be a 1952 briefing for President
Eisenhower informing him of the crash and recovery of an
extraterrestrial spacecraft and crew near Roswell, New Mexico in
1947. Now, if the MJ12 papers are genuine, then they were leaked
unofficially and in violation of U.S. national secrecy laws and
it was here where the FBI had jurisdiction to get involved. The
FBI approached a number of agencies, such as the Air Force and
the Defence Intelligence Agency, in an attempt to unravel the
truth behind MJ12, but as powerful as the FBI was and is, even
they had to admit defeat; the main reason being that there were
so many secret levels within government it was impossible to get
a straight and complete answer. In other words, if there is or
was an MJ12 group and I for one believe there was and is then
access to their data must be limited to an incredibly small and
select body of individuals. But if it relates to actual crashed
UFOs and dead alien bodies, then this isn't surprising, and it's
not surprising that the FBI wouldn't be entrusted with the facts

IB: How do you sum up your findings on the FBI's UFO involvement?

NR: Well, it's clear from the 3,000 or so pages which have been
declassified and which cover the late 1940's to almost the
present day, that the FBI has had deep and on-going involvement
in all manner of UFO - related activity. The cattle mutilations,
MJ12, crashed UFOs, dead aliens, military and civil pilot
reports of UFOs, and the many contactee accounts taken as a
whole point to deep and long lasting involvement in the UFO
subject on the FBI's part. And as remarkable as it may seem,
there really are equivalents at the FBI of Mulder and Scully
whose job it is to look into the various issues I've discussed
above; and in the words of The X-Files, the truth really is out
there - and it's in my book, too!


A Week With David Morehouse
by Richard Conway

For those of you who have not read the book PSYCHIC WARRIOR:
David Morehouse started life in the army as an infantry and went
on to become an officer. His military background dictated that
he would one day become a general in the US army. Circumstances,
however, prevented him from becoming a military officer of this
status. After being shot in the head and finding himself the
subject of many 'Out of Body Experiences', he arrived at what
has come to be known as 'Operation Stargate', the military
remote viewing program. After spending a week in Stowemarket,
and satisfying myself that remote viewing was indeed a real
occurrence, I had the opportunity along with the other members
of our class to put many questions to him.

 Some of the transcript is as follows:

Class: David, it was rumoured that they were making a film of
your life based on your book?

DM: Yeah, they were going to get Bruce Willis to play the part
of me, but he had another offer at the time to play the lead in
the film the Fifth Element. Instead Sly Stallone's agent made
sure that he got the part, but the film was stopped when the
script was rewritten and they had him - as me - blowing up buses
with one finger, you know....

Class: Is it going to be made?

DM: Yeah, I had lunch with Wes Craven recently; he said that the
script should be just like the book. He is interested.

Class: David, have you ever had any targets of UFOs that you had
to do for the military, during your time in the program?

DM: Well, you know, during the program we weren't asked to do
one target of a UFO. And this means to me that they know what
they are because otherwise we would have been asked to do
something like this. There is one time that we had to do an
exercise, I wish I had taken this file from the unit .... erm
...It was an exercise where 17 to 18 remote viewers in the unit
including myself did a target which turned out to be the
incident in Tunguska. Pretty much all the viewers and myself got
the same thing. We saw a rip in space which was in the sky, then
something fell out of it and plunged down hitting the ground
with an explosion. In my view this craft was driven by a sort of
... learner driver, this was what I feeling at the time.

Class: Have you ever gone to a target site and seen anything
that gave you nightmares afterwards?

DM: Like I wrote in the book, we went to the Lockerbie bombing
and had to move around the plane and find out what happened, I
couldn't sleep for days afterwards, the explosion .... Seeing a
little kid running and asking for her mommy. This was after the
plane had exploded ......

Class: David, has knowing what you now know, changed your
outlook on life?

DM: I wish people could see what I've seen because now I know
that we're not alone here. I've seen that there is something
else, as have many of the other viewers. This isn't it ....
There's more than this, I know.

David Morehouse is beginning to set up workshops in the UK for a
moderate cost. These will be held in London and the Ipswich
area. For contact information, or to find out more about remote
viewing in Britain, and how you can take a course to develop a
talent which the military (DIA) in the United States has been
teaching soldiers for 20 years:=

call 01449-614765 (Roy Farrell)

Richard Conway

NEXT MONTH.................


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