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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1998 > Jun > Jun 6

Re: Area 51 Still Operational

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:03:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 13:17:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Area 51 Still Operational

>Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:12:59 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <johnr@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational

>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Skywatch: Area 51 Still Operational
>>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>>Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:10:24 -0400
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>The UFO phenomenon is not supported by Lazar, or crop circles, or
>>any of the promiscuously promised "great revelations" that are
>>"just around the corner". It is supported by over 50 years of
>>well documented sightings and trace evidence.

>Here we go again, more armwaving. Where are these cases? Where is the
>documentation other than in a stream of unreferenced pot-boilers?

Gee, John, how about Soccorro, Levelland, Exeter, Delphos...

Not to mention strong military radar/visual cases, such as that
recently documented by Brad Sparks in his excellent piece for
Jerry's book.

I mean, really, you expect someone to reproduce all of the cases
of the last 50 years that have stood the test of time on an
Internet mailing list? Why don't you read the literature and
save us some time?

>>How many good distance estimates have slipped through the cracks,
>>to take just one key measurement? With good distance
>>measurements, we can do altitude, speed, luminous energy output.
>>Yet few investigators make an effort to obtain triangulation,
>>they simply rely on wild guesses by witnesses.

>How can you get good distance measurements without first
>*knowing* the altitude, size, etc? How can you get triangulations
>if there's just one witness location? Where are the cases with
>witnesses clearly seeing the same object from distant locations?

Gee, John, you get them by having multiple witnesses or by using
witnesses who are in a car. Or you use cases where the object
clearly passed in front of a background object. Or you use
radar. Take your pick.

I've done one case with triangulations and I'm working on
another. It is definitely possible to get distances and sizes.

>Again, where are these trace cases? Jerome Clark was making great
>deal of noise a while ago about Trans-en-Provence (France) but
>he's gone all quiet about that now that it's been demolished by
>French researchers who were actually on the spot. Now I see
>someone on the Update is trying to resurrect Ubatuba which was
>buried 30 years ago. Do me a favour!

Really, Ubatuba demolished? By who? Sure, there are problems
with some of the work done, and it is a sad thing that the
primary piece was completely destroyed during the original
analyses, but without funding and participation by mainstream
labs, what was done was at least a contribution.

Jerry will have to respond to your comments on his reaction to
whatever so-called "demolition" of Trans-en-Provence has
occurred. However, I have yet to see such a refutation.

And lets try the medical effects experienced by Flynn and by
Webb. Let's take the pressure measurements of Quarouble and

>>Science on UFOs is moved forward by incremental basic work,
>>founded on good field investigation, not by revelation. And if
>>half the effort spent on the tricksters was spent on real science
>>done on real cases, we'd be getting somewhere.

>I agree. If people were doing REAL research we wouldn't be
>wasting our time on the dear dead extraterrestrial hypothesis.

Yes, yes, it's dead (sigh). I hear this wishful thinking all the
time. Exactly what killed it? I'm not an ETH proponent, but it
sure has less problematic aspects than MHH, PNH, CSH, or the

Now, tell us John, how many field investigations you've been on,
how many old cases you've examined, and how much of the
literature you've actually read. Then maybe we will know how
much weight to give to your unsubstantiated rant.

Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
- Original digital art, writing, and UFO research -
Author of SF novels available at...

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