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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1998 > Jun > Jun 15


From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:09:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:16:15 -0400
Subject: Memory

>From: Cathy Johnson <cej@idirect.ca>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Asking Pamela Stonebrooke
>Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:48:30 -0400

>>Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 20:09:27 -0700
>>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Asking Pamela Stonebrooke

>>>From: Cathy Johnson <cej@idirect.ca>
>>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Asking Pamela Stonebrooke
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:07:31 -0400

>>>>Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:29:52 -0700
>>>>From: Skye Turell <turel33@west.net>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Asking Pamela Stonebrooke

>>>>>Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:55:01 -0500
>>>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>>>>Subject: Asking Pamela Stonebrooke


>Dear Skye,

>For the sake of brevity I have snipped a bunch.

>Cathy Johnson

Hi Errol, hi All,

The original post in this series (which appears to have gotten
lost in the shuffle) was directed to Pamela Stonebrooke and
related to some specific questions about her statements. If you
look at the mess in the attribution headers you'll see that
Pamela herself has not responded or maybe not had an oportunity
to respond.

As for the comments being made about 'memory.' This series of
posts has served to illustrate the point that I made in my
response to Skye. Many people are confusing purely 'mental' (or
to use their own jargon,) "spiritual/astral" experiences with
actual-real time- physical events.

No-one anywhere is trying to differentiate between those who
claim to have-memories of actual events- and all the other stuff
that people are -calling- "abduction memories."

Part of what makes all this so hard to investigate is everyone
going around walking on eggs trying not to dismiss the claims of
others out of some 'distorted' sense of fairness or political
correctness. Hey man, head cases are head cases! Let's begin to
differentiate between the people who are reporting real time
(consciously) recalled physical events and those who "think"
they "may be" in contact.

It's high time that some distinctions were made. Five years ago
when I consented to do the NOVA segment I had invited the
producer to give me not only physical and psychological exams
but a polygraph test as well. My reasons for that were simple
and self explanatory.

Something(s) happened to me,

 . . .I remembered them,

 . . .I was telling the truth,

 . . .about an actual event!

What's with all the philosophical "maybe it's this, maybe it's
that" crap? If something happened then it happened. Let's
concentrate on verification. If it didn't or you're "not sure"
then all you're really doing is clouding the issue and making it
harder for people who have had -real world events- take place to
get any serious attention or even an investigation.

If you are 'going public' then I believe that you should be able

1. Be willing to substantiate your claims.

2. Be willing to subject yourself to verification, ie;
psychological exam, MRI/x-ray, polygraph, or any other
(non-intrusive) form of testing or verification.

3. On a personal level- be willing to answer/respond to tough
questions, and to have the ability to question/explore the
nature of your own experiences in as (objective) a manner as

BTW, I know that a 'polygraph' cannot show the reality of an
event but it can sure help to eliminate those who are being
intentionally deceptive or who are trying to pass off pure
'imagination' as reality.

That's not a lot to ask of someone who publicly claims that they
are interacting with a non-human agent, don't you agree?
Everything else is just speculation and superfluous. It
contributes nothing new or of value and only serves to divert
attention away from what [I think] is -a very real core

The first thing I did was to have myself tested/evaluated by a
competent psychologist. When someone (validly) asks me, "How do
you know you're not crazy or imagining things?" I have a solid
answer for them based on my having put my sanity to the acid
test. I don't know, what do -you- offer in response to such a
question? Well gee, you gotta believe I'm not disturbed because
I'm telling you so! Sorry, not good enough. If you are telling
the truth, (publicly) you should be willing to do what you have
to in order to substantiate it. Otherwise, all you do is hurt
the (public) case not help it. It -is- up to us to substantiate
our claims not to others to disprove it! Abductees have to take
responsibility for what they are claiming or get off the public
stage. As I said anything less only serves to hurt the case.

It is -partly- because of all the confusion that surrounds this
subject that we are not taken seriously by a majority of people.
That, may prove to be the downfall of all. In another better
world the honest testimony of several hundred or thousands of
people would be all the "proof" that is needed. Sadly, such is
not the case in the world that we do live in. Abuctees
especially should be ready and willing to make their peace with
reality and be ready to substantiate their claims when they do
it in any public forum. For the benefit of all.

"Speculating" is just wheel spinning. Yours is as good or as
valid as anyone elses. We've had enough of that. We need to ask
all the hard questions and get some 'hard' answers.

It's simple, sh*t or get off the pot! Enough with the verbal
masturbation. Now, whadda ya got?

Nuff said.


John Velez, Abductee

*(Notice I didn't say, "experiencer!" "Experiencer" is too
passive. I and others are being -taken.- The word "abduction"
fits it better and is more accurately descriptive. I poop on
"politically correct" yuppie new age jargon. If it's a spade
it's spade. Calling it a 'trowel' doesn't change a thing!"

**Still waiting for Pamela to respond to the original post!

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