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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1998 > Jun > Jun 16

Re: Memory

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:55:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:09:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Memory

>From: Cathy Johnson <cej@idirect.ca>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Memory
>Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:12:56 -0400

>>Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:09:41 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Was: Asking Pamela Stonebrooke, Now: Memory

Hi Cathy, hi All,

>Dear John,

>Thank you for pointing out that this conversation had indeed
>strayed considerably.

That's why I changed the subject header! I didn't want to
_stop the thread_ only to seperate it from the original post
which was specifically directed to Pamela with questions
regarding some statements that she made.

Actually what I was did was to respond to it as a seperate
thread! <G>

>>The original post in this series (which appears to have gotten
>>lost in the shuffle) was directed to Pamela Stonebrooke and
>>related to some specific questions about her statements. If you
>>look at the mess in the attribution headers you'll see that
>>Pamela herself has not responded or maybe not had an oportunity
>>to respond.

>You are right. Skye and I simply fell off in the deep end and I
>am in the process of discovering that I cannot swim.

Me neither kid! That's why I try to keep things simple. K_I_S_S!
(Keep It Simple Stupid) "Simple" is about all I can handle
myself nowadays. Must be middle-age! <VBG>

>>As for the comments being made about 'memory.' This series of
>>posts has served to illustrate the point that I made in my
>>response to Skye. Many people are confusing purely 'mental' (or
>>to use their own jargon,) "spiritual/astral" experiences with
>>actual-real time- physical events.

>You bring up a major point in that no one dares to segregate
>channelling from actual abductions and contacts. The brown bag
>of UFOology does have some curious contents, doesn't it.

You bet! But I do think that it's important to draw the
distinctions for the sake of those who have had their lives
turned upside-down and need a serious investigation and some
sound answers. No-one is going to give us much credence as long
as we are being lumped in with the 'channelers' and the UFO
cults, and the many pseudo-religious cults and groups that have
attached themselves to the phenomenon.

You know me Cathy - you know why, and where I'm coming from.
Others are happy thinking that my motivations are "ego based"
but I know that _you_ know better! It's nice to be able to
disagree or even argue with someone who is not using the
converation for personal attacks. It's refreshing and something
that friends/peers should be able to do. Sadly, such is not
always the case. "Some folks" have their little personal agendas
to take care of! <G>

>>No-one anywhere is trying to differentiate between those who
>>claim to have-memories of actual events- and all the other stuff
>>that people are -calling- "abduction memories."

>How do we fit in, John? I know we both have our sides to tell,
>whether it be real or not. How do we tell the difference? Both
>of us are so bent on telling our own side of the story that we
>are willing to do all kinds of things to offer up our own proof.
>Yet, it is proof that no one will listen to. Have we made any
>impact with our honest sincerety? Is there really anyone out
>there listening to people like us? Does their knowing of our
>story help anyone?

Oh for sure Cathy! That's what I'm talking about. If we can
seperate the wheat from the chaff intelligent and thoughtful
people _will pay_ more attention. It won't be long after that
that (hopefully) a serious investigation will begin. I just
don't think it'll happen unless we drop the -deadweight- of the
New Age movement, and all of those who only "think" they are
being abducted and muddy the waters with their idle and
sometimes bizzare speculations/stories.

>Yes John, there are lots of people like us. There just as many
>stories as there are people with experiences floating around.
>And some of them have equalled, if not surpassed your own
>efforts to confirm and validate truth as you know it. But, what
>did it get you for all of that trouble? I can only hope it was
>your money's worth. As for me, I didn't have that much money to
>spare. Nor did I go to such lengths to try to prove myself or
my >experiences to anyone. My fault about that, sorry.

No Cat, it was my choice. As I have said, it was what my
conscience dictated that I should do. I stood up to be counted
and offered myself to them so they could look for their proof-in
their own way. It was a sacrifice I was willing to make on their
behalf. Personally I could give a shit who believes me or not.
But that is a selfish attitude and because of all the
'unknowing' masses of humanity it was one that my conscience
would not allow me to indulge.

I am doing what I have to do. I don't claim that its what
everyone should do nor do I recommend it. As you well know it
can get pretty rough out here on the range! It's a role that I
assumed on my own, and because a few close freinds thought that
I'd be able to do some good as an abductee rep and contribute
something of value to the (public) effort. Probably because I
have such a big mouth! <G>

>All this talk about memories, about mental processes and so on
>are only part of intangeable sciences. There is so much more to
>learn, to discover, if only by listening to the tales we tell.

I listen to all the "tales" you want me too as long as the
person telling it is willing to back it up!

Take good care Mother-trucker, and try to stay between the
ditches! Say hi to Big Bob for me! <G>

Warmest regards,

your friend always,

John Velez

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