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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1998 > Jun > Jun 20

Re: Sheffield 'Incident' - New Evidence

From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 10:45:16 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:16:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheffield 'Incident' - New Evidence

>Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:00:23 -0400
>To ufoupdates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Sheffield 'Incident' - New Evidence
>From Dave Clarke,

David Clark wrote:

>To recap:  Max Burns claims a witness called Jonathon Dagenhart
>saw the co-pilot of a Tornado fighter jet which was destroyed by
>a UFO it was pursuing above the Peak District of Northern
>England on the evening of March 24, 1997.

>This is the Burns scenario: After bailing out of his aircraft,
>this co-pilot parachuted onto the A57 Snake Pass, one of the
>busiest trans-Pennine roads linking the cities of Sheffield and
>Manchester. Despite being soaked to the skin with highly
>inflammable aviation fuel, the "co-pilot" did not radio
>emergency services for help but decided to hitch a lift from a
>passing mini-bus in which Mr Dagenhart and friends were
>travelling to Sheffield...

<snip>

Mr. Clarke there are no telephone boxes or houses
on that area of Snake Pass. and as the jetís were
flying at an altitude of 250ft, when it became time
to bail out I doubt that there would have been time
to enjoy the luxury of radio communication
How would you radio for help thought
projection?

<snip>

>Am I alone in smelling a rat here?

<snip>

Your smelling something, check your note book or your
shoes your piled up in it.

<snip>

>First of all I contacted Dagenhart directly on two occasions by
>phone on May 11 and 12 and the following statement is taken
>directly from shorthand notes transcribed immediately
>afterwards:

>"I was a passenger on a minibus which was travelling across the
>Snake Pass towards Sheffield late on the night of March 24 last
>year. When crossing the viaduct over the reservoir the bus was
>flagged down by a man who was acting suspiciously.

>"He spoke little English and was West Indian or Asian in
>appearance, with short black hair and a round face. He did not
>seem to know where he was and just said he wanted to get to
>Sheffield.

>"The guy was covered in fuel of some sort and from the smell I
>thought it was paraffin or diesel, but since then I have joined
>the RAF and I can say it was a smell like aviation fuel.

<snip>

Here is the full transcript of the conversation, which
I have on tape and if any one wishes to obtain a full
copy of this interview, then please email me.  I have
not twisted anything and Mr. Dagenhart was fully
aware of the situation after our conversation.

Mr. Jonathan Degenhart was contacted by Mr. Mike
Jarvis (reporter for the News of the World).  Mr. Jarvis
left a number and Mr. Dagenhart called The News of
the World back.  He corroborated all that he had
discussed with myself, almost word for word, and was
fully aware of how this story was going to be reported.

At that time he was not even bothered about being
quoted, I repeat he was not bothered about being
anonymous. Everything that you are about to read is
the full transcript of the conversation in which you will
see that I'm not the one trying to hide or twist anything.

In fact Mr. Clarke is desperate to have this real incident
disproved so badly he has now finally tripped himself up.
The evidence is quite clear

After writing a letter to this man regarding his comments
in the police log he telephoned me.  Here follows the
verbatim transcript of my telephone conversation.  Taped
interview between Max Burns and Jonathan Dagenhart on
2/5/98.  Time 11.10 am I had to call the witness back on
another phone so as to set up the recording equipment the
conversation went like this.  He consented to being recorded.

Burns		Hello there
Dagenhart	Hello
Burns		So what happened that night? You'd been the
		Wales...
Dagenhart	Well we'd been to Wales, Um on the way home,
		Um driving down Snake Pass and all of a sudden
		just coming up to the viaduct this man stepped
		out in front of us, flagged us down so we stopped,
		pulled over I was in the front of the minibus with
		the driver and another passenger so I wound my
		window down and he started speaking to us he
		said I've got to get to Sheffield, Sheffield and that's
		basically all he said.
Burns		Did he look in shock?
Dagenhart	Yes he didn't seem to really know which way
		Sheffield was or what he was doing or anything
		and the thing is I said at the time when I rang the
		police he smelled of diesel fuel, well since then
		I've joined the air force and I'm now working for
		the air force and it wasn't diesel fuel it was aviation
		fuel that he'd got on him.
Burns		Ah absolutely superb
Dagenhart	and I will put my money on that
Burns		You work for the air force
Dagenhart	I work for the royal air force
Burns		Where do you work? as a civilian for the air force
Dagenhart	No I actually work for the air force I am paid by the
		air force
Burns		Really can I ask you what job you do?
Dagenhart	I'm a jet engine specialist
Burns		A jet engine specialist
Dagenhart	Yes
Burns		And where do you work?
Dagenhart	At the moment I'm down in Wolverhampton but in
		July I'm moving up to Lock (unintelligible) in Scotland

<snip>

>"We didn't give the man a lift because the bus was full and we
>didn't like the look of him, but I thought it was odd because
>there were no parked cars anywhere near and it was a deserted
>spot.

>"The next day I heard about the search for the crashed plane and
>rang police to report the incident, thinking the man might have
>been an immigrant or criminal they were searching for."

<snip>

I have my interview on tape, this man is a member
of the RAF and rang the News of the World saying that he
was going to lose his job because of what he had said.

Question why would someone lose there job over some
thing that has not occurred?

As you can see from the actual taped interview what
Mr. Clark is saying is a fabrication and Dagenhart has
obviously been made to retract his statement and not
because of how I was going to use his testimony.  As
you can see from the conversation we had, at the time
he was quite happy about everything.  He said and also
was quite happy about calling the News of the World back
and confirming what he had said to myself.

Then enter the RAF. Enter Mr. David Clark, and all of
a sudden it might of been aviation fuel and the man
looked dodgy.

Tell me there are over a dozen people
on a mini bus why would they be intimidated by one man?

And from the police log.

Mr. Dagenhart said that they could not give the man a
lift because there was no room, he also says that they
could not give the man a lift because there was no room
in my interview. My interview about the reason for no lift
is the same as the reason given to the police.

Has Mr. Dagenhart lied to the police as well as myself?

Or is it back to enter Mr. Clark and the RAF
and statements change?

Burns		Or Do you know, I must send you a full
		copy of this report of what's happened.
		Do you remember they were looking for
		a crashed plane.
Dagenhart	Yep
Burns		Yes they've lost a military jet.
Dagenhart	Oh right
Burns		And I believe he was the co-pilot of the
		tornado jet that's crashed.
		Did it look like a flying suit he was wearing?
Dagenhart	Um I don't know he'd got clothes on but
		I mean it was dark and he'd got dark
		clothes on that's all.
Burns		And he didn't know where he was?
Dagenhart	No
Burns		Yer and there were no vehicles in the area
Dagenhart	There was nothing.  A police car past us
		about 2 minutes after we passed him Up
		'cause we'd got a full minibus there was no
		room at all to get him on sowe drove off.
		We told him the right way to go and a
		few seconds later a police car passed us.
		See when I spoke to the police later that
		evening (unintelligible) been on that road
		there had been nobody there and
		in a matter of seconds.

<snip>

>Questioned about the clothes this man was wearing, in the light
>of Max's claims, Dagenhart told me: "They were just ordinary
>dark clothes. He was definitely not wearing the sort of uniform
>associated with RAF pilots. I would have recognised that uniform
>immediately."

<snip>

In the Taped interview Mr Dagenhart said it was dark and
could nottell whether it was a flying suit. because it was dark.

Burns		I think I saw you because I was there in the area.
		I think I saw your minibus I saw a military landrover
		as well.
Dagenhart	Yes there probably was a couple of landrovers
		around but we'd got a white minibus with a trailer
		on the back.
Burns		Yer did you go through Castleton at all out that way
		or did you just go over Ladybower and into Sheffield
		that way.
Dagenhart	Over Ladybower and into Sheffield that way.
Burns		That night I've got 13 witnesses to an enormous
		ufo flying about everywhere
Dagenhart	right
Burns		A military interception and they're trying to cover
		it up but you know I'll send you a copy of this if you like
Dagenhart	yer brilliant
Burns		Do you remember anything else was his English good
Dagenhart	No it wasn't it was very poor very poor.
Burns		Yer I think he might have been a Nato pilot or co-pilot
Dagenhart	Yes he was of sort of African sort of origin very very
		dark skinned
Burns		And it was definitely aviation fuel
Dagenhart	yes
Burns		And you can substantiate that because you now
		work for the Royal Air Force on jet engines you now
		what aviation fuel smells like
Dagenhart	yes

<snip>

>After asking him to repeat his account of the events Max asked
>if he could use his testimony in a story he was working on for a
>national newspaper (as it turns out the downmarket News of the
>World). Permission was granted, but according to Dagenhart's
>statement on May 12 "at no stage in any of this conversation did
>Max tell me he was going to use what I told him in a story
>claiming I had seen the co-pilot of a Tornado which had been
>shot down by a UFO.

<snip>

I have never asserted that Mr Dagenhart said that it
was the co-pilot of the tornado jet, I said I believed that
it was the co- pilot... and I did not contact the News of
the World until after i had spoken with Mr Dagenhart.
I refer back to the transcript he was fully aware of
what I am asserting.

<snip>

>"I don't believe the man I saw was a pilot and if my name were
>to go in a national newspaper associated with such a claim I
>could get into serious trouble with my employers, the RAF.

<snip>

If that is the case and from the transcript of the taped
interview Mr. Dagenhart was fully aware of the implications
of what I am asserting.  Why did he willingly call The News
of The World back and corrobarate all that he had discussed
with me?

When Mr Dagenhart called me He said that he
had been spoken to and I had twisted what he said... You
can all read the transcript.  I have not twisted anything.

I also asked him was it his employer the RAF, who had spoken
with him he replied that he was not allowed to say.  I then
asked him if David Clark had spoken with him, and he
replied no he had not.

<snip>

>"I haven't been silenced by anyone, I just don't want my name
>connected with a story like this and that is why I intend to
>tell Max not to involve me any further.
>"I just told him what I saw that night and that is all I know."

<snip>
Why has Mr Dagenhart just blurted out, I have not been
silenced?

There is no mention of Mr Clark asking him if he has
been silenced by anyone, in Mr Clarkís interview.

Why did Mr Dagenhart feel the need to say that?

<snip>

>According to Dagenhart, in the letter Max identified himself,
>not as a UFOlogist, but as "a journalist working for a national
>organisation."

<snip>

Mr Dagenhart involved himself by responding to my letter.
I only stated that I was investigating the incident. I did not
tell Mr Dagenhart in my letter which I wrote to him that i was a
UFOlogist because obviously in the interest's of obtaining a
untainted statement it was important to say as little as possible
with regard to the incident and what i believed had occurred.

So as to obtain whatever comments with regard to the man he
encoutred freely and without prompting, and at the same time
not leaving myself open to be accussed of coersion.with regard
to Mr Dagenhart's statement.

I never said i was working for a national org. I did tell him that I am
a journalist and whatever any one thinks of Alien Encounters,
I have written several feature articles for them and was paid
as a journalist.

Burns		Do you know what if you was a woman I'd be
		bringing you flowers today oh this is absolutely
		brilliant can anyone else substantiate this?
Dagenhart	There was 15 other people in the minibus like 15
		other people in the minibus who were all there on
		the evening
Burns		Is there any chance Do you know the other people
		well?
Dagenhart	I know some of them well but I don't know them all
		there's about 8 that I don't know at all I know about
		four off the trip
Burns		Is there any chance you could speak to someone
		else that saw him and get them to call me
Dagenhart	Yer I can do
Burns		Could you
Dagenhart	I'll give it a go yer
Burns		I'll post you a copy of this report after the weekend
Dagenhart	right brilliant

Can you tell how keen Mr Dagenhart was at this point and he
was fully aware of how i was reporting this story..

<snip>

>Max had obtained this witnesses' home address from a copy of a
>log belonging to South Yorkshire Police which had been provided
>by another UFOlogist, Martin Jeffrey, of Sheffield.

<snip>

Thatís right David I did, and then I kindly let you copy the log
and most of my other interview notes, that is correct is it not
Mr. Clarke.

What was your point?

Burns		Yer is there anything else you can tell me about
		that night where abouts on Ladybower was he?
Dagenhart	um
Burns		before you go over it or...
Dagenhart	Yer you know as you're coming from snake pass end
Burns		Yes
Dagenhart	You come up on to the Ladybower the smaller of the
		two viaducts going straight on to Sheffield
Burns		And he really didn't know where he was going
Dagenhart	He didn't know where he was going it looked like he
		just walked off a hill
Burns		Really did he have any mud or anything on him Could
		you tell was his clothing dirty
Dagenhart	I couldn't tell
Burns		But as you work for the Royal Air Force on jet engines
		your absolutely 100% certain that it was aviation fuel
		not diesel
Dagenhart	yes
Burns		Is there any chance you could write this down for me
Dagenhart	yes
Burns		Could you in handwriting not typed
Dagenhart	yer no problem
Burns		do you know what thanks very much for calling what's
		your first name
Dagenhart	Jonathan
Burns		Jonathan thanks very much for calling me you've been
		absolutely superb cos. I was giving up hope of getting
		in contact with you I was going to come and knock on
		your door and put a note through your door you know
		to Rotherham next time I was up there cos. I used to
		live in Rotherham
Dagenhart	Oh right
Burns		I used to live in Kimberworth
Dagenhart	Oh right cool
Burns		You know off Meadowbank Road
Dagenhart	Yep I've got friends who live up there
Burns		How old are you Jonathan
Dagenhart	I'm 25 and a half
Burns		25 and a half Do you mind me asking about
		your education?
Dagenhart	No go for it
Burns		What education have you got?
Dagenhart	I went to a little secondary school in the town
		where I  lived in Swinton the local secondary
		school didn't do any A levels didn't go to college
		didn't do anything left school with all GCSE passes
		there all Ds and Es very low passes got a job working
		in Milton Keynes, worked there for 4 and a half years
		came back home did other little jobs, trained as an
		outdoor educating instructor then joined the Royal Air
		Force that's basically it
Burns		Well you're obviously intelligent because the air force
		don't take idiots
Dagenhart	No  I was travelling abroad as well in about 18 months
		I mean in about three years I spent about 18 months
		abroad
Burns		Listen can I give you another number to ring me on
		instead of the one I gave you in the letter Yer if you
		pass it on to one of your friends if they could call me
		today it would be appreciated its **** ******* and
		I might contact you again if that's OK
Dagenhart	Yes well this is my parents number and I'm hardly ever
		here
Burns		Well I'll leave a message for you
Dagenhart	yes
Burns		Now in my report do you ant me to change your name
		 keep you anonymous
Dagenhart	To be honest I don't care
Burns		Thanks very much Jonathan
Dagenhart	You're welcome
Burns		You've been absolutely brilliant try to get someone else
		to ring with a statement
Dagenhart 	yer I shall
Burns		About the bloke
Dagenhart	Yer I will
Burns		Thanks mate
Dagenhart	OK
Burns		Brilliant
Dagenhart	No problem
Burns		Bye
Dagenhart 	Bye

As you can see Mr Dagenhart was fully aware of all aspects
of the incident as i saw it and he was very happy to go on
the record with his statements, once again enter Mr Clark
enter the RAF and all of a sudden he is trying to change his
statement's.

Am I the only one smelling a Rat here?

<snip>

>Now i come to my point: Who was this man "covered in aviation
>fuel" encountered by Jonathon Dagenhart on the Snake Pass?

>You would think any objective investigator worth his salt would
>not accept a story like this at face value but  would at least
>ask some obvious questions, including: why would a stricken
>pilot hitch a ride on a minibus rather than contact the military
>or emergency services by radio? Would an RAF pilot whose plane
>had been destroyed above his own country find it so difficult to
>speak English? How many Tornado pilots are of Asian or West
>Indian appearance anyway?

<snip>

It has already been confirmed that there were N.A.T.O tornado
jets there.. letís see how many countries are there in N.A.T.O.?

For one the people of Turkey luck Asian...just as one example.
Not forgetting Mud / Oil / Aviation Fuel / Hillside/and darkness

<snip>

>Surprise, surprise, Brian Jones - who has 30 years' experience
>as a National Park ranger - remembered the incident straight
>away. Details about a man covered in petrol or paraffin
>wandering on the Snake Pass that night had in fact been reported
>to him by the police the next morning.

>"I do remember the incident as it was reported to the Peak Park
>Ranger service the next morning," he told me. "I understand it
>was a failed suicide attempt. It was someone who had driven out
>to the country and poured petrol or some other inflammable
>liquid over himself. But he had not gone through with the
>suicide. It had been reported to South Yorkshire Police who had
>passed it to Derbyshire to deal with. It's the sort of thing
>that happens occasionally in a remote area like this."

<snip>

Do people who are about to commit suicide forget where the
nearest large city is?

You cannot purchase aviation fuel in the peak district area,
and having checked all local filling stations, who informed
me that there is not much call for aviation fuel.
It is fair to assume that people do not take to wearing
aviation fuel as a fashion item while out walking.

And as Mr. Dagenhart stated there were no carís in the area.
What did he do buy aviation fuel walk miles to the middle
of no where, poured aviation fuel over himself
then changed his mind about suicide and forgot where
Sheffield was?

<snip>

>I then contacted Insp Howard who confirmed the incident had
>occurred as described by the Ranger, but due to its sensitive
>nature no Press statement had been released at the time.

<snip>

The only thing sensitive about this situation is that Mr Dagenhart
has actually encountered the co-pilot

Whatís the manís name, i want to interview him?
Especially to ask him where ho left his car and where he obtained
aviation fuel from?

<snip>

>So there we have it folks, not a co-pilot after all, but a
>disturbed and possibly mentally ill individual who had made an
>attempt to take his own life that night.

<snip>

You actually expect people to believe that?

How can a non attempt at suicide be of a sensitive nature?

Whereís your evidence Mr Clark a bunch of neatly
packaged official statementís from people involved in
the cover up and people who have been made to change
there minds.

Why would Mr Dagenhart lose his Job over Something
that the RAF and yourself say has not occurred?

Take a step back readerís of updateís these are the fact's

You can read my research at:

http://www.skipnet.com/~visitations/sheffield/

http://www.pufori.org/articles/sheffield/index_nf.htm

You can also hear the edited Dagenhart interview at
these above 2 sites

Report only
http://www.sightings.com/ufo/sheffield.htm

Best regardís

Max Burns




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