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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Apr > Apr 5

Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:11:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:01:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:22:07 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 01:25:09 -0500
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate
>>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 21:39:15 PST


>My point: Statement. Nowhere in John Rimmer's post do we
>find an attempt to promote the PSH. Nowhere, even, do we
>find it mentioned. What we find when we look, and read, and
>mark, and learn, is an asseveration of a truth universally
>acknowledged, that those fallen into a sympthay with the
>extra-terrestrial hypothesis (ETH) have been reluctant to
>produce - even recusant on the matter, as in the Boy
>Bishop's case - specific UFO cases that are especially
>suggestive of an ET "solution".

COMMENTS: We can excuse Brookesmith's ill-informed opinion as
that of a latecomer to the field of UFO research.

Us veterans who have been involved in UFO research since the
60's and earlier are quite knowledgeable of the fact that
consensus lists of best UFO cases were published in the 60's and
80's based on surveys of UFO researchers worldwide.

It is incumbent on skeptics to tackle the unexplained best UFO
cases on these lists published by the pre-eminent Jacques Vallee
in 1966 and by Ron Story and Richard Greenwell in 1981.  Even
latecomers cannot pretend never to have heard of Vallee and his
book 'Challenge to Science' is still in print today.  Skeptics
have even less excuse to ignore Vallee's list when one of their
own, Philip Klass, cited Vallee's list in his classic book 'UFOs
Explained' published in 1974 (p. 109), revised in 1976 in
paperback (p. 129), which remains the standard textbook of
anti-UFO skepticism.  Klass writes:

  "When UFOlogist Jacques Vallee surveyed numerous UFO groups
   and asked them to list the most impressive UFO case on
   record, their overwhelming first choice was Socorro."

It is also obligatory that skeptics explain the _many_ UFO cases
that their own "anti-UFO" side, the Condon Committee, could not
explain.  These are conveniently listed in the Condon Report
Index in the back under "Sightings, unexplained" (p. 961b of the
popular Bantam edition).  And one cannot use the excuse any
longer of not being able to obtain a copy of the out-of-print
Condon Report.  See the online Condon Report at:


Here again are the Vallee (1966) and Story-Greenwell (1981)
survey results on the best UFO evidence, which I just posted
before receiving Brookesmith's misguided missive.  And again,
while I do not personally endorse these lists as I have my own
better list in the works using stated selection criteria
(instead of just subjective impression), these do belie
Brookesmith's purported "universal truth" that the field of UFO
research has never put forward, or is "reluctant" or "recusant"
in putting forward, a list of best UFO cases "suggestive" of

At least Brookesmith is more reasonable than Klass in allowing
best-evidence cases that are merely "suggestive" of ETH.  Klass
demands cases that conclusively PROVE ETH and it is difficult to
know what he means by that other than an unreasonable demand for
a UFO to crash on the White House lawn or alien ambassadors to
present credentials at the UN.

And again I must point out that I personally reject ETH after
spending many years trying to prove it.  I accept the OEH
(Objective Existence Hypothesis) and my best evidence list will
be in support of the fact that an objective physical phenomenon
that is unexplained by modern science does exist.  And let me
reiterate that I estimate that about ONE-THIRD of these cases in
the Vallee and Story-Greenwell lists remain unexplained or even
unmentioned by UFO skeptics.

Even when skeptics discuss these cases they almost never mention
that the cases are on a best-evidence list so the average reader
does not realize that the skeptics may be leaving out a whole
host of other best-evidence UFO cases when they take highly
selective potshots at only a few.

The only exception I am aware of is Klass who mentions in UFOs
Explained that the Socorro/Lonnie Zamora case was ranked number
one in Vallee's list, but Klass has apparently never again
mentioned Vallee's list ever in the ensuing quarter century.

Jacques & Janine Vallee, Challenge to Science (1966)
Survey of 29 U.S. UFO organizations (about 13 responding) of
Most Significant or Convincing UFO Sightings

1.  Socorro, NM, Apr 24, 1964  (Zamora case)
2.  Washington, DC, July 19-20, 26-27, 1952
    (Wash National Airport)
3.  Trindade Island, Brazil, Jan 16, 1958  (IGY photos)
4.  Mt. Rainier, Wash, June 24, 1947  (Kenneth Arnold case)
5.  Ft. Knox, Kentucky, Jan 7, 1948  (Mantell case)
6.  Southwest U.S. (Texas), Nov 1957  (Levelland etc.)
7.  Kinross AFB, Mich, Nov 23, 1953  (jet disappearance)
8.  Rapid City, SD, Aug 5-6, 1953  (radar-visual jet case)
9.  Lubbock, Texas, Aug 25, 1951  (Lubbock Lights photo)
10. Newport News, VA, July 14, 1952  (Nash-Fortenberry case)
11. Boianai, New Guinea, June 26-7, 1959  (Father Gill case)
12. Fort Itaipu, Brazil, Nov 3, 1957
13. Salem, Mass, July 16, 1952  (Alpert photo)
14. Red Bluff, Calif, Aug 13, 1960
15. Washington, DC, May 29, 1950  (Capt Sperry case)
16. Goose Bay, Labrador, June 30,1954  (BOAC radar-visual)
17. Rome, Italy, (Oct 28, 1954 ??)   (radar-visual?? Clare Booth Luce??)
18. New Jersey, (Apr 24, 1964 ??)  (Wilcox contactee ??)
19. Montgomery, Alab, July 24-5, 1948  (Chiles-Whitted case)
20. Ubatuba, Brazil, Sept 1957  (magnesium physical evidence)
21. McMinnville, Ore, May 11, 1950  (Trent case photos)

Nos. 2, 8, 16, 20 and 21 were investigated by the Condon
Committee and 2 of the 5 remained _unexplained_ (nos. 16 and
21), Goose Bay and McMinnville.

Ronald Story with J. Richard Greenwell, UFOs and the Limits of
Science (1981) Oct 1979 Survey of 90 Leading UFO Researchers (33
responding) Strongest UFO Evidence on Record

1.  McMinnville, Ore, May 11, 1950  (Trent case photos)
2.  Great Falls, Mont, Aug 15, 1950  (Mariana film)
3.  Newport News, VA, July 14, 1952  (Nash-Fortenberry case)
4.  Lakenheath AFB, Eng, Aug 13-14, 1956 (multiple radar-visual)
5.  Levelland, Texas, Nov 2-3, 1957
6.  Trindade Island, Brazil, Jan 16, 1958  (IGY photos)
7.  Boianai, New Guinea, June 26-7, 1959  (Father Gill case)
8.  Whitefield, NH, Sept 20, 1961  (Betty & Barney Hill case)
9.  Exeter, NH, Sept 3, 1965
10. Ravenna, Ohio, Apr 17, 1966  (Spaur chase case)
11. Mansfield, Ohio, Oct 18, 1973  (Coyne helicopter case)
12. Tehran, Iran, Sept 19-20, 1976  (Iranian jet case)
13. New Zealand, Dec 31, 1978
    (New Zealand film multiple radar-visual)

All three of the cases on this list that had been investigated
by the Condon Committee, Nos. 1, 2 and 4 (McMinnville, Great
Falls, and Lakenheath) remained _unexplained_ after
investigation by the Condon Committee.

The only case that appears on all three lists, Vallee 1966,
Condon Committee 1969, and Story-Greenwell 1981, is the
McMinnville photo case, about which I plan to post an update
soon (see more comments below).

>Last time around Mark
>Cashman had the balls to offer a list. This time Bruce
>Maccabee unzips his list and stands up [sic] to be counted,
>and finds he has more than ten. Good. Now let ten or more
>brave souls do likewise, and perhaps, variegated as these
>individual lists may be, we may find ten that all include.
>Then we can set-to on them, at least.


>My point: Second statement. We may choose to divine from the
>fine spray of this Diocesean Discourse that St Jerome has a
>certain fondness for the following UFO cases:

>1. RB-47, as analysed by Brad Sparks
>2. McMinnville, as analysed by Brad Sparks & Bruce M'bee
>3. The Coyne helicopter case, as analysed by J. Zeider
>4. Unspecified EM cases (vehicle stops)


>My point: Coda. It's observable - and, "of course, of some
>mild psychosocial interest in itself" - that the Blessed
>Jerome offers us not _cases_ that may perhaps support the
>ETH or even demolish the PSH, but interpretations of those
>cases as admirable. Thus yet another layer of thought is
>interposed between the original experience and its

>does also occur to me that PSHers the world over are
>justified in wondering when this scholar of canonical texts
>last considered the nature of actual experience, or even got
>outside his front door, rather than promoting what somebody
>said about what somebody said about what somebody said about
>what someone else may or may not have seen when the small
>rain down did rain on a rainy night in Georgia, or Wigan
>pier, or Jericho. This layering and re-interpretation alone
>justifies a psychosocial approach to what is loosely called
>"the UFO phenomenon".

COMMENTS:  Excuse me but we are not talking about _literary_
_interpretations_ of UFO cases but _scientific_investigations_
that have overturned and devastatingly refuted the BEST
investigations ever put forward by UFO skeptics.

It is incumbent upon Mr. Brookesmith to become better informed
about these startling developments.

As one who is very sympathetic to skeptics, having worked with
both UFO skeptics and advocates for many years, and has strived
to resolve these classic UFO Best Evidence cases, I must
acknowledge cold, hard, scientific _facts_.

As much as I tried to get the RB-47 case so ably demolished by
Phil Klass to fit into his explanatory framework, it just
wouldn't fit.

In fact the more I struggled to explain it, the worse Klass'
explanations fared, and the stunning breakthrough that resolved
the erroneous flight path of the RB-47 finally exploded his
entire theory once and for all.

That is now published in The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Edition,
based on my off-and-on investigation since 1971 (see AIAA's
Astronautics & Aeronautics, Dec 1971).

Klass has responded, complimenting me on the thoroughness of my
investigation though of course disagreeing, and I am rebutting
his weak and inadequate responses, which do not even deal with
most of the stunning refutations of his very convincing initial

I am now in the intense process of finalizing my 27-year-long
investigation of the McMinnville/Trent UFO stereo photo case,
which had begun at the instigation of Phil Klass in 1972.  At a
number of points in recent days I thought the case was about to
collapse, at long last proven to be a hoax, and I would have
been more than happy to announce the confirmation and
vindication of Klass and Sheaffer in demolishing the case
(despite the anticipated angry and bitter denunciations of the
pro-UFO extremists).

However, that has not turned out to be the case.

At every turn the seemingly supportive hoax datum turned out to
be mere chimera and new more powerful pro-UFO evidence and
scientific analysis has emerged to bolster the case.

I still see the possibility of the McMinnville case collapsing
but I must concede it gets ever more remote each day (yes, I
work on this case each day).  I must also admit that the
McMinnville case is not converging on a real physical phenomenon
as smoothly and neatly as the RB-47 case did.

Unlike the McMinnville case, at no point in my fresh
re-investigation of the RB-47 case in 1997 did it ever appear
that it was about to collapse, or that some point establishing
Klass' theory ever seemed to be about to be proved.

The RB-47 case converged on UFO reality from the start of the
re-investigation and on every point, lending great confidence in
the final result.

Brad Sparks

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