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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Apr > Apr 6

Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:13:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:02:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman

>From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Kraus vs. Friedman
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:22:52 -0400

>>>From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
>>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:53:15 EST
>>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>>Subject: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate


>>>This last point gets to the heart of the matter. The general
>>>issue of alien visitation is so a prior ludicrous, on the basis
>>>of any sound physical reasoning, that any claim that it has
>>>actually happened would have to meet the strongest skepticism
>>>and scrutiny.

>There's no way of knowing how likely alien visits are, because
>we don't have any data.

>By data, I mean hard facts. If I'm curious to know how likely I
>am to run into someone from Bulgaria, I can start with some
>facts. Bulgarians do visit the United States. There are bound to
>be some in the Bulgarian embassy in Washington, and the
>Bulgarian mission to the UN in New York, so my chances of
>meeting one are greater in those cities, and presumably smaller
>in Akron, Ohio. So if I met one in Akron I might be surprised,
>and much less surprised in Washington or New York. But I do know
>that meeting a Bulgarian in the United States is entirely


You are ever the intelligent one -- and I don't mean that

At the same time, if you had actually met a Bulgarian, there
would no doubt be several ways or mechanisms by which you could
demonstrate same to any objective observer (such as myself). In
which case, end of argument. Yes, you indeed encountered a
Bulgarian, from Bulgaria, a country which we mutually agree
exists and contains numerous inhabitants. All I need is a
surname, passport, street address and phone number, along with a
social security number, assuming the Bulgarian equivalent of
same exists, along with a birth certificate, and I can
presumably confirm your account. In short, I would be forced to
agree and admit that you had indeed encountered a Bulgarian,
even if I had never encountered one myself.

But what if you told me that that selfsame Bulgarian had
abducted you at night in a beam of light, transported you
through your apartment wall with no harm, sucked out your sperm
and used it to create a hybrid baby, or clone, all the while
entertaining you with stories of imminent terrestrial apocalypse
and other environmental catastrophes, leaving you with scoop
marks and episodes of missing time, all of which were originally
initiated at the age of five or less, and which still continue,
aided and abetted by a host of other unusual entites, including
praying mantises and humans dressed in uniforms...well, wouldn't
you think that a bit _odd_, Bulgaria-wise?

Wouldn't you agree that at some point we're no longer talking
about Bulgaria -- or Kansas -- as we know it? And that it's up
to you (or others) to provide some convincing evidence of this

>What are the chances of encountering aliens here on earth? We
>don't have a clue. We don't know how many intelligent races
>there are in the galaxy, or, in fact, if there are any at all.
>If they do exist, we don't know if they travel from star to
>star. If there's a concentration of them, but very distant from
>us, maybe they're less likely to come here. But if there are
>spacefaring aliens on a planet of Alpha Centauri, just four
>light years away, then they might well visit here, even if they
>face the same limitations on interstellar travel that we face,
>at our present level of technology.

Actually, we do have clues, beginning with the "failure" of
SETI; see also the Mike Davis article in The Anomalist 5. Of
course we can't prove that there's no other intelligent life out
there anywhere at this point -- just as the largely anecdotal
abduction accounts don't prove that there is.

>Since we don't know any of this -- since we have no data at all
>about alien races -- then we can't estimate the probability of
>alien visits. Anyone who tries it is simply guessing.

Well, yes. But wouldn't this also include those
abductionoligists who allege that millions of Americans are
being abducted on a regular basis, and have been for
generations? I'm willing to concede that I can't estimate the
probability of alien visits if they will.

>And since we can't know what scientific advantages we might make
>in the next hundred, thousand, million, or billion years, we're
>in no position to make assumptions about what technology aliens
>might have. There might, for all we know, be scientific paradigms
>that go beyond Einstein, just as Einstein went beyond Isaac
>Newton. Advanced races might find interstellar travel much easier
>than we think it is. Or they might not -- but there's no way we
>can know.

Well, yes, but if you're going to adhere to this viewpoint you
might as well say anything or nothing at all. You might also ask
yourself, while you're at it, if they're so goddammed advanced
then what could they possibly need or want from us at all? Why
would they friggin' bother?

Let's concede that they _are_ a billion years in advance of us.
(Which is where you want to have your cake and consume it, too.)
Having now conquered interstellar travel in that interval, where
else would they be scientifically deficient? What _possible_
interest could they have in us at all, let alone some sort of
cosmic "need", never mind a sharing of environmental concerns? A
billion years headstart (which is a pretty long piece of time by
anyone's standard) and they still haven't figured out how to
plug a planetary ozone hole, engineer their own genetic code, or
improve on the Prime Directive? The Bulgarians from Outer Space
(BOS) still need our puny outdated sperm and ova?

Somehow, I don't think so.

But, hey, what's a billion years or two between friends?


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