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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Apr > Apr 6

Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:52:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:55:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:51:20 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: John Rimmer <magonia@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: Friedman vs. Krauss Debate

>However my request was for cases which were indicative of
>extraterrestrial intervention, not simply puzzling
>"unexplained" cases.

Well, let me put a question to you, John.

What sort of cases would these be?

I always thought the drill went as follows. Puzzling unexplained
cases exist. They appear to involve unknown objects flying
about, displaying maneuvers (along with other tasty features)
that our technology can't match. We start wondering where these
objects might come from. An extraterrestrial origin is one
reasonable guess.

This is not just the way the best-known ufologists work -- it's
also quite literally the history of the UFO phenomenon. As you
know, hardly anyone thought "flying saucers" came from space
when they were first widely talked about, in 1947. Most of the
discussion was about how puzzling and unexplained they were.
Most people who didn't dismiss them as hoaxes or illusions
thought they were secret weapons. It took a few years for the
ETH to catch on.

But now, apparently, you want to restructure the theory and
practice of ufology. Because the ETH is so popular, you want to
focus specifically on that. You challenge people to name cases
that directly -- not by implication -- suggest alien visits, as
if what you're proposing were reasonable, or even possible.

What cases would they be? Maybe the Hill case, since the alien
leader showed Betty Hill a star map. (I'll leave out Adamski and
other '50s contactees, since neither side in this discussion
believes them.) But what else? Even something as bizarre and
extreme as the Linda case offers no evidence that aliens were
involved. The beings never said they came from space. If they're
real, they might have come from the center of the earth, or the
thirteenth dimension. (And even if they'd said they came from
space, as Betty Hill's alien seemed to, they could have been

So, John=85since you're proposing (with every air of being
serious) something so radically new, please help us out. Give us
your own list. Name some cases that -- if only they'd really
happened as advertised --woud suggest extraterrestrial
intervention. Or make up cases that don't exist. Help us out by
describing some imaginary cases, which, if they were real, would
meet the standard you're demanding from the rest of us.

Since you say you like my musical comparisons, I'll give you
one. A few years ago, I was part of a panel discussion at the
Eastman School of Music, in Rochestrer, NY. The subject was the
future of classical music, or something like that, and I was the
lone voice saying that rock & roll had artistic value. During
the question period after the panel discussion, a tight-bunned
musicologist type pops up, and in a triumphant, angry voice
dares me to name a single rock song with the musical structure
of a Brahms symphony.

His question was irrelevant, of course, because obviously rock
songs don't have that kind of structure, and nobody -- certainly
not me -- had ever suggested they did. In ufology, John, you're
that musicologist (with a better sense of humor, thank God). In
my view, you're raising an absurd question, one with no real
meaning and no connection to any ongoing discussion, and then
claiming rhetorical victory when nobody answers it.

Though if you provide a list of plausible cases, I might change
my mind.

Greg Sandow

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