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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Apr > Apr 8

Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:28:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:41:08 -0400
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!

From: Rory Lushman <rory.l@zen.co.uk>
Date: Thursday, 8th April 1999. 14:25
Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
To: updates@globalserve.net

>From: Max Burns <AlienHype@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999
19:13:43 EDT >Subject: Re: BUFORA Watch - Resignations Galore!
>To: updates@globalserve.net

As someone who has never been a member of BUFORA, I have watched
with great amusement both sides of this great debate continue. I
have in previous posts made my feelings known on various

Before I tackle the BUFORA fan club, I would ask Max this
question. Why recently has the number of television programmes
turned to the likes of Andy Roberts, Dave Clarke, Tim Matthews,
and myself to appear on them. I was in London Tuesday filming
with London Weekend Television.

The programme called "The Unknown" will air in September. Why
should we be asked to appear on these programmes if we are super
sceptical. The tide of opinion is now turning against the ET
theory - although not altogether before someone jumps on my

We went to a field in Surrey and 7 of us were asked to describe
footage we had shot. I made it quite clear that what I had
filmed probably had a rational explanation born of this Earth.
Whilst the crew were setting up a number of the guests pointed
to the sky and immediately they were at high alert.

The object was a plane and quite clearly so, yet some of these
people were jumping up and down crying UFO. These people wanted
it to be a UFO and so saw one. This is what Max Burns is doing
with the Sheffield saga. He wants there to be something there
that isn't.

I think that Max misses the point as regards BUFORA. Andy, Dave
and Tim had a passion for BUFORA. All they wanted was a high
degree of research. Much of Max's case is testimony only, with
dubious statements.

Why as a non-member of BUFORA would I support the likes of the

It is simple. Having spoken to these people, they just want
honest investigation, carried out seriously, with enthusiasm.
They base their research on evidence, not hearsay, speculation
or totally made-up evidence.

Remember Lister's I have had my arguments with Tim Matthews but
I supported his research. We have resolved our differences and
are moving forward together.

Max says he has new evidence. For those not able to attend the
'We All Adora BUFORA' conference, would Max please explain what
this new evidence is, especially for our friends abroad?

Andy, Dave, Mike and Tim support many of the people in

It's the people at the top, the MJ4, who feel they do not have
to answer any questions.

Let them make a public statement via this list on their reasons
for allowing Max to promote his highly dubious case.

I offered to talk for BUFORA but never got a reply. My
investigations have been thorough but never mind. Factual cases
are not wanted, just myths. No, there are no sour grapes but one
would have thought that cases backed up by evidence and research
would get a chance to be heard.

The ripples from Max's fables have certainly spread wide.

Resignations, friendships tested and all for what? One of the
most poorly researched cases.

Roy Hale Bop, e-mailed me privately after my last message on
UpDates, he forgot to copy Lister's on.

I asked him where are all those people who support Max's
theories. Let them be heard, be proud, be loud.

So where are all these supporters?

They number few. The few that do shout out, try to promote
his waffle as a 'freedom of speech' issue.

Also Roy is another who likes to use e-mail pseudonyms. Deny
that Roy, Steve Dorrengeds or Dornegeds. You see Steve, managed
to get his own surname wrong.

As Mike Wootten says:-

>BUFORA might as well throw open its doors to any
>nutcase with a theory......ah, I've realised the flaw in my
>argument here, it already does.

Max has had this case printed on may sites, magazines. Let
BUFORA have him, they will be putting the final nail in their
own coffin. If this is what they promote as serious research,
then what a dire situation British Ufology is in.

Max, the IUN is all about independent researchers, who look at a
variety of cases. Like it or not, the IUN is the way forward in
the UK today.

Just because serious researchers wanted realistic answers to
questions about your work of fiction, it does not make them
debunkers, agents or what other buzz word you choose to use.

I hope Max will be making an audio tape of his lecture, so he
can share his revelations with us all.

Let me tackle some of Max's statements, I apologise if I repeat
some of my statements.

>Me ponders how many sonic events light up the sky with a red
>flash? Please do not jump in with it was a Tornado igniting its
>after burner as it would not light up the whole of the sky.

Why is this a "fact"? are you an expert? Where do you get this
information from?

You are automatically assuming, because of the report about an
explosion and a flash, that they are both connected.

Max, you have not spoken to this witness, so isn't this a giant
leap? Making assumptions on second-hand information isn't good

>Oh I am afraid the situation has changed and I _do_ have
>"new evidence". You will just have to wait till June the 5th
>Ohhhh, I forgot, you will not be attending...

This sounds like the Emperors dialogue from 'Return Of The
Jedi'. BUFORA will be operational on June 5th with a fully
working battle station..... but the alliance is coming Max.

>So basically what you are saying, Mr Wootten, is that if you lot
>cannot have your own way, BUFORA are crap....

All Mike has done is highlight the shortcomings of this shower.
BUFORA would still be crap, even if Andy, Dave, Tim and Mike did
not comment.

>Libellous rubbish, the only people who have cheapened the
>subject are yourselves with this constant bombardment to
>have me removed from the lecture platform..

I say let Max talk, let him dig his own grave.

>You mean the constant harassment of council members
>don't you?

All everybody wants is answers and the MJ4 choose not to answer
difficult questions. The people who are suffering are the
subscribers to BUFORA. They are probably unaware how they are
being ripped-off with tragic cases such as Max's

>The decision has been made. Its not open for your negative and
>dubious debating skills. Attend or don't attend that's up to

"Dubious", look that up in a dictionary. Would you debate this
subject in a public forum, would you subject yourself to a
humiliating defeat in front of an audience?

>I recieved the following post only this morning. I feel just
>about sums up the situation:

You forgot to mention who the post was from.

I have never been a member or a supporter of BUFORA, so I don't
need an axe to grind because of who they are but more for what
they stand, or don't stand for.

>And Max, go get'em!!! You've got the audience for sure now.
>They've personally hand-delivered it by these actions.

I doubt it.

>In the last twelve months he has not posted one item for
>BUFORA to UpDates. He has been ineffectual as press
>officer and has done nothing what so ever to assist in the
>work of BUFORA....

Again Max misses the point. Dave stated that he was not informed
of many of the decisions within BUFORA, you can only do a press
release if you have the information.

>Indeed, it could be argued that he has done no more than provide
>up front, privy information for the group who are hellbent on
>taking control of the UK ufological scene, in an attempt to
>discredit BUFORA and therefore take the members to the newly
>reformed IUN - whose key members are Andy Roberts,
>Tim Matthews and Dave Clark. Among others.

Yes there are many others.

>Perhaps it would be best if BUFORA started a serious hunt for
>the real reason why the IUN wish to discredit the Organisation?

Hunt, that's a strong word. BUFORA is a joke within the UK. They
wanted to control the power within ufology. When I say they, I
mean the MJ4.

The IUN is about individuals and their research.

>Then why are you plugging the newly reformed IUN?

Why not? You are so sure about BUFORA, what is there to worry

>All power, no research, no differences of opinions more like

Where's the power base? There are differences of opinion but,
unlike BUFORA, they will be listened to.

>Come and hear my talk with new evidence which the killing
>team do not know about... I am not asking that you believe me..
>I am asking that you at least listen to what I have to say.
>then make your own minds up instead of this biased influence
>being forced upon the uk ufological groups by the likes of the

Will people be allowed to ask questions of this new evidence?
Will the evidence be able to be checked?

Max, I think your e-mail address says it all...hype.

Rory Lushman.
Pendle, Hyndburn UFO Network.
Quite independent and free thinking.
(Is that OK Andy <vbg>)

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