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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Feb > Feb 3

Re: Abduction - The Issue Of Reality

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:18:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:51:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Abduction - The Issue Of Reality

>Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:33:56 -0500
>From: Peter Brookesmith Mendoza <DarkSecretPB@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Abduction - The Issue Of Reality
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:12:36 -0500
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
>>Subject: Re: Abduction - The Issue Of Reality

>First, John, sorry I misconstrued the sequence of events in your
>"alien script" episode. However the brain here is more in
>Perkins diesel mode than RR supercharged Merlin, and I for one
>am not clear even now what you consciously remembered and what
>was recalled under hypnosis. I'd be delighted if you'd
>elaborate, and no doubt others would find the story intriguing

Please excuse length of this post.

One night in 1976 my wife and I had retired for the night. It
was about 11:30pm or thereabouts because I had work in the
morning and Margie was up early with our kids.

Margie fell asleep quickly (I heard her snoring! <G>) and I was
laying there waiting for sleep to come. The room became flooded
with light. I opened my eyes and as I lay there it looked like
the sun had come up and was blasting through the window behind
me. The light became so intense that it began to wash out all
visual detail in a brilliant haze.

I could not move. An electrical tingling began in my feet and
rose up my body. The last thing I recall was struggling to move
and not being able to. By this time, (only a minute or so had
passed since the onset of this event) I was thoroughly scared
half to death and I had been trying to scream but couldn't.

The next thing that happened seemed like a 'vivid nightmare' and
that is precisely how I categorized it upon awakening. In spite
of a nosebleed that was directly related to what I recalled of
the event. This is what I recall of the "nightmare."

I am laying down on something cold and hard. The "atmosphere" is
brightly lit and hazy. It's like the air itself is glowing a
bright milky white. I look over to my left and out of the "mist"
appears the face of a giant praying mantis. (Only this one had
no antennae and a very thin humanoid body. Two long thin arms
that it kept folded in front just like a mantis, and two thin
legs. Couldn't see its feet.) The sight of this thing only
served to frighten me. But I "spoke to it" asking it, "What are
you going to do now?"

It was holding a long metallic needle/probe. It -glided- (not
walk) over to me and as "someone" held my head from behind me it
inserted that thing into my right nostril. I closed my eyes and
my whole body tensed. I felt -pressure- inside my head right
between my eyebrows as the 'big bug' pushed hard to insert the
thing deeper.

The next thing I hear, (now I heard this audibly. It is one of
the clearest of the details I remember of this whole thing and
the one detail that bothered me the most) is a dull crunching
sound inside my head like bone being mashed. As the thing
penetrated into my head a blinding white flash of light went off
inside my head.

My very next recollection is of being led (by a tiny figure)
into a room. The room was all metal. Like dull aluminum. There
was only a tiny pedestal in the very center which came right out
of the floor. A "Grey" was seated there facing me as I entered.

We didn't go over to him though. Instead I was turned toward my
left, and I was taken to one end of the room. In front of the
wall was suspended a curved screen. It was all white. When I got
immediately in front of it a black on white symbol appeared. In
my head I heard someone tell me to, "Study and remember." This
was repeated three times.

I put my nose almost up against the screen and began to trace
the outline of the thing with my nose just inches away from it.
(Just as a side note: I did what I was told without second
thought or question. I find that frightening.) Within the black
outline of this "symbol" was three "letters/characters" of a
kind I had never seen before. I don't know how long I gazed at
the thing, but I did study it carefully. My next recollection is
the alarm going off.

I sat up in bed feeling absolutely euphoric. As if the world and
all it contained was wonderful and beautiful. I got up to look
for a pencil and paper so that I could draw the "logo." (Which
I'm not in the habit of doing. I never "record" dream stuff)
When I passed the mirror in the bedroom I noticed the nosebleed
and instantly recalled the "Nose operation" of the night before.
It didn't even phase me. I was so elated that all I could think
of was drawing that 'logo.' I cleaned off my face, got a pencil
and paper and that's how Margie found me that morning, sitting
at the kitchen table drawing.

I couldn't concentrate at work for several days. The whole thing
was replaying itself over and over in my head. At times it
became so bad that I almost clocked out and went home. It was
like an obsession. It was all that I could think about. It
gradually wore off, and the sense of elation and the
preoccupation with the event just drifted away. Although I -have
never forgotten a single detail- of it since.

When Budd and I conducted an exploration using hypnosis, the
only stuff that was added was; After I saw the light and became
paralyzed, a half dozen "greys" came floating into the room from
the wall behind me (they weren't walking. They floated in in a
neat row, like little soldiers and arrayed themselves around our
bed.) I was lifted and taken out of the house (through the back)
and taken into a large sphere of light. The rest with the
addition of one or two details is just as I recalled it
originally. The way it ended was, I was taken from that room
that contained the screen I was "talked to" and then returned to
my home and bed. Where I was "tucked in" as if I was a small

>Especially interesting would be to know what you were doing
>before the event, and whether there was a missing time episode...
>in other words, what you did and didn't consciously recall and
>how there was a gap that bore investigation under hypnosis.

Like I said in my original Peter, I didn't recall how it
started, (what happened after I saw the light and the paralysis
set in) or how it ended, (how I got from in front of the
'screen' back to my bed.) That, and only that, is what was
"added" by hypnosis. The rest was/had been in my head since it
happened. I couldn't get it out of my head for the longest time.
I struggled to understand what it meant. The first two or three
days afterwards it was difficult for me to think of or
concentrate on little else.

>Oh, and did you keep, and do you still have, your original
>sketch of the glyphs from 1976, to compare with what you
>produced from the hypnotic session?

Yes I do, and it does, it is the same stroke for stroke. The
only difference is; in the original I had drawn them uniformly
straight up and down. (Neat, like print) In the version I did
for Budd they are leaning more, angled a bit. But the characters
themselves are the same. They weren't that tough to reproduce.
They are simple structures and easy to draw.

>John also remarked:

>>Again, all they served to do was to 'fill in' rather
>>(small) gaps in my original recollection. You and others
>>always make it sound as if the majority (if not the whole)
>>of our accounts are derived from hypnosis. It just isn't a
>>fair or accurate representation.

>Nor is that above! There are many, many cases of alleged
>abduction that are hypnotically "retrieved" on the basis of no
>more than a chunk of "missing time", for example. You've told me
>of two of your own experiences in which aliens figured only
>under hypnosis - 1979, 62nd St, and the motel-room "Castilian
>speakers" one. My account of the former makes plain the
>difference between what is consciously recalled and what's
>emerged from hypnosis.

You conveniently leave out the fact that the 1979 event began
with a very close up UFO sighting over that building I took you
to. When the 'missing time' began I was running for my life in
terror from that thing I saw on my corner.

But yes, the "alien" part only came out during hypnosis. I am
always very careful to separate the two when I tell it. The
"Castilian speakers" was hypnosis too. But again, based on
conscious recollection of a portion of the event.

Peter, when Budd does hypnosis it isn't like a "fishing
expedition" where you blindly go in looking to see what may be
swimming around in there. The sessions were focused on very
specific events that I recalled consciously. In most, the
salient details of what happened were already there in my head.
They revolved around 'UFO sightings' and some stuff that
happened at home and on the road.

>The usual figure bandied about is that one in three abduction
>accounts are offered from conscious recollection. I suspect this
>figure--or factoid--derives ultimately from Bullard's 1987
>catalogue created for "Measure of a Mystery". I wager that a
>similar herculean labor today would find the proportion has
>shifted in favor of hypnotically acquired accounts--my dollar to
>your dollar, I'm a cheerful loser--and that the shift begins
>after 1988, post "Intruders" and post "Communion".

Aye mate, you're probably right about that although I question
the validity 'statistic' that you are quoting unless I can see
the study it is based on. I haven't read Bullards book so I'll
take you at your word that it's one in three.

>Plainly hypnosis can't take _all_ the blame for abduction
>accounts, and I've absolutely never claimed it can. Indeed the
>real challenge to anyone who'd argue that abduction stories are
>not literally true is to explain the ones that are consciously
>recalled. Which is not an impossible task, if a large one.

Yes, a -large one.- Which is why I've spent the last six years
asking for a full investigation by independent analysts/experts.
(Medical/psychological/and any other fields of expertise that
can be recruited!)

>Nonetheless. When the most vocal, and certainly most
>widely-read, proponents of the reality of abduction--Hopkins,
>Mack, Jacobs, Sprinkle, B_y!?n, Fowler--_all_ use hypnosis
>freely, and claim that it's indispensible, and base their most
>celebratedly outlandish cases on it, and furthermore produce a
>lot of spurious logic and transparent sophistry to avoid dealing
>with the objection that its potential pitfalls far outweigh its
>potential merits, and furthermore _don't_ tell us sometimes
>highly salient facts about their subjects that would put the
>hypnotic material in a very different light than the one they
>shine on it, then they deserve all the kicking they get.

No. they don't deserve to be "kicked" and yes, hypnosis is
way overused and emphasized. We've discussed this privately
before. We both agree that what is needed is a thorough and
careful examination of this whole phenomenon.

>Four of the above-named are demonstrably intellectually
>dishonest at worst and self-deceiving at best. If some clown now
>complains from their cave or wormhole that skeptics can be less
>than perfect too, that is as it may be; but it does not donate
>any integrity, objectivity or self-knowledge to the mountebanks.
>Rant over. Deep breath.

Rant noted.

>John then went on to comment on my, er, Jungian notion--not--of
>symbols that arise in trance (-like) states:

>>Also, if this is
>>"common" or "archetypal" material, why isn't it present in the
>>"cultural/artistic" offerings available either in a gallery or
>>archaeology museum? If it was truly 'common' we'd all be
>>familiar with the glyphs from new or ancient drawings/art
>>produced by men and women who go out of their way sometimes to
>>find and reproduce (from within themselves) such material. The
>>conscious and the subconscious are the breeding grounds of art.
>>Yet I had never seen anything like this 'writing' before the
>>event in 1976. And, I'm pretty sure that (we) haven't discovered

>>-for the first time in human history- a set of "archetypal
>>symbols" that are 'common' to all.

>Er--may I suggest more thorough research? Note, I did say trance
>or trance-like states, and I didn't have Jung's collective
>unconscious in mind - just common brain wiring.

Oops, misread on my part!

>Not everyone is
>familiar with those states, and our society seems particularly
>averse to encouraging them. (Some would go from there to suggest
>that this lack of familiarity is one reason such experiences are
>now transmuted into abduction accounts, but I don't want to
>debate that here.) Other societies have been more generous
>toward their immanent dream-makers. The San people of the
>Kalahari ("Bushmen" to unreconstructed colonialists like me) are
>one instance that come to mind of people verifiably
>incorporating trance material into their art. There are others,
>lost to my memory off hand, and there is a mass of
>"archaeological" material that certainly bears a relation to
>those "alien glyphs" I've seen, and that very probably derives
>from trance material, given what we know about their producers'
>parallel interest in hallucinogens, etc.

I know what you're referring to Peter and I don't recall ever
seeing anything quite like what I (and the others) drew. If
you can point me to some examples I will be glad to give em
a look see and report to you whether there is any similarity.
I'm only looking for honest answers Brother Rat not to
propagate personal belief.

>As I said, my idea is testable: you _very carefully_ hypnotize a
>control group and see what comes out. Personally I wish I had
>seen more samples of the "alien script" for myself, to judge just
>how similar they are.

I suppose you will get the opportunity when Mr. Appelle
publishes. (If he publishes!)

>Even more interesting would be to discover
>that someone besides Hopkins had had subjects produce scripts
>just like those in his collection.

I've been curious about that myself! Maybe Greg can ask to look
at anything David may have in that category because he has
already seen what Budd has. Greg will be able to tell if there
are any (major) variations/deviations between them.

>It would be a cat among
>pigeons to find that e.g. Dr 8o!la_ also had a whole three dozen
>alien scripts all alike but totally dissimilar from the Hopkins
>Collection. Aaaaiiiieee!

Yes it would indeed. Although what it mean to you if several
of them turned out to be identical?

>>knows, one night while chasing the foals you may encounter
>>something which will defy explanation for you too.
>Well, I've always said they're welcome to come and try. No skin
>off my nose. And it would certainly add to my knowledge of the
>subject. I hope aliens don't annoy horses, though, or at least
>that they don't bruise easily! (And even more I hope that the
>damn' horse doesn't hoof me instead of them, sod it.)

Don't turn your back on them, and if you drop something don't
bend over to pick it up! <G>

Warm regards,

John Velez
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."

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