UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Jan > Jan 17

Re: The State of Ufology Today

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlt@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:37:06 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:10:27 -0500
Subject: Re: The State of Ufology Today

>Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:15:06 -0500
>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
>To: UFO UpDate <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: The State of Ufology Today

>>From: George Filer <Majorstar@AOL.COM>
>>Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:08:34 EST
>>Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 22:32:20 -0500
>>Subject: Filer's Files 99-#1 MUFON Skywatch Investigations

>>Filer's Files #1-1999,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
>>George A. Filer,  MUFON Eastern Director,  Happy New Year
>>January  8, 1998,   Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020


>>I feel more than fifty percent of the sightings can be explained
>>as aerial misidentifications, natural phenomenon, various types
>>of secret military aircraft and the like.

>I am amazed at your abilities, after decades in the field.

>>There continues a steady stream of reports throughout most of
>>the year.

>Well, yes, this is most certainly so and worthy of comment.

>>It seems that the reporting of these misidentifications should
>>continue, even if the real UFOs departed.

>The "real" UFOs!  Got them pinned down, do you?!  And I rather
>imagine if the "real" UFOs stopped coming around we'd see an end
>to the other reports as well, after a decent interval.


>>MUFON investigators like myself are not paid or reimbursed for
>>numerous phone calls, travel, and time expended to verify the

>Now, that says a whole lot about something, doesn't it?  That
>is, the "verification" process is self-funded, by the verifiers,
>who are just ordinary citizens.  Impressive, to say the least.


>>I report the siting if it seems authentic.

>Is that "siting" or "sighting?"  Inquiring minds want to know!

>>We attempt to have investigators follow up the reports.  Often
>>those people with the best sightings are very reluctant to be
>>interviewed.  They often do not want UFO investigators coming to
>>their homes or giving out their names.  I think this is
>>understandable.  Even under the best conditions it is difficult
>>to have a meaningful follow up investigation.  We have MUFON
>>investigators driving hundreds of miles to meet with a witness
>>who fails to show.  Sometimes they refuse to fill out the papers
>>or sign their name.

>And what do you have if they DO sign their name?  Just another
>sighting to add to the thousands of others filed away in dusty
>files -- since the 1950s, for heaven's sake!  So what!

>>I wish to thank those investigators who have driven the miles,
>>spent their time and written the reports.  One investigation
>>done correctly can take days.  MUFON and most UFO organizations are
>>strictly volunteer with no pay.  Expenses are not paid, and a
>>great deal of time and effort is spent.  The investigators
>>deserve a medal, a thank you, and a well done.  They are the
>>heroes of this field.

>And, it seems to me, dumber than dirt.  Why spend any more time
>and money on this activity?  What does it gain you!  Don't you
>know that Richard Hall's house is near unto bursting with file
>cabinet after file cabinet of UFO reports, all just as
>"verified" as the latest thing MUFON is doing!  What in heaven's
>name will piling up more of THESE do to move things along?

>>Anyone who claims to possess startling UFO information should be
>>able to provide at a minimum there military or government
>>records, ID cards, college transcripts and similar evidence to
>>prove their backgrounds and employment.


>First, a Clarkism: "there" should be "their."  And, of course, I
>agree -- all of these people should be vetted. . .as should all
>the OTHER people in this field who have positions from which
>they may pontificate!  Why stop with the new guys, huh?


>Well, thanks, since you are my Silver Standard in ufologists!

>>To those who desire to learn the truth about UFOs, I encourage
>>you to read information from the respected leaders in the field
>>such as Richard H. Hall's "Perspectives" column.  It's published
>>monthly in the "MUFON UFO Journal."

>Ah, yes, my Gold Standard for ufologists IS Mr. Hall!
>>"MUFON UFO Journal"] makes me think about how the sociological
>>aspects of the UFO movement distract from the physical science

>Mr. Hall is a well-respected physical scientist with a huge
>budget for instrumented scientific analysis of high flying UFOs!

>>News media gleefully report on the colorful personalities, the
>>more paranoid the better, but where is their reporting on the
>>potentially important airline pilot sightings of the past few

>So what if they WERE reported -- are they any different from
>10,000 other sightings by airline pilots since 1947?


>>Obviously, Bell is viewed by the media as representative of the
>>UFO field, even as guru for ufologists.  Well, count me out.
>>Let's stick to facts, logic, and science.

>Ah, yes, but that's HALL'S "facts, logic and science!"

>>Thanks to Bob Soetebier and the December '98 MUFON Journal, p18.

>Thanks, indeed!

>Gary Alevy


These are selected snips from your post that I think illustrate
your caustic and hostile attitude toward Jerry Clark, Richard
Hall and MUFON investigators (like myself). I had to look at
your displays of hostility even when other researchers were
being civil to you and only asking you to prove what you were
saying in your posts. Bruce Evans received the same treatment. I
respect the work of the above people and despise seeing you
resort to character assasination. I don't know what drives your
cynicism and hatred. Perhaps a qualified therapist would be able
to help you understand yourself and your obvious self hatred.

Perhaps then you will drop your hateful attitude and actually
begin to finally contribute something to this field. Judging by
the work of Jerome Clark and Richard Hall you may after years be
worthy of licking their boots.

Gary, don't vent on me. I've seen more than enough of your
ugliness in far too many posts. I will not stoop to respond to

Josh Goldstein
(lowly MUFON investigator dumb as dirt)

[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp

Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com