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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Jan > Jan 20

Re: RAMS - Cleanup The Corners

From: Scott Krause <SKrause272@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:14:31 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:47:47 -0500
Subject: Re: RAMS - Cleanup The Corners


>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:54:20 +0000
>From: Robert A. M. Stephens <sti3818@montana.com>
>To: UFO UpDates Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: RAMS - Cleanup The Corners

>Robert Collins wrote:

<snip>

>>Jeroen Wierda wrote:

>>>Hehehe.... I really start to have some respect for R.A.M.S. by
>>>now. He puts Art Bell, Hoagland and others in shorts. And they
>>>don't like being exposed as entertainers, where they know that
>>>95% of the "ufo-world" think that they are reliable sources of
>>>information. I HOPE this Stephens character makes people
>>>waking up to the scams, and see the theories and stories that
>>>are sent out by the entertainers for what they really are:
>>>That is entertainment.
>
>>>Jeroen Wierda

How can anyone have respect for this type of circus? This is not
entertaining, it's nonsense at the best!!

>-----------------------------------------------------------

>To you, Jeroen, RMC and the rest,

>You all get it. This is enlightening. The point was even if one
>claimed he was a fraud others took it to task and found out it
>was different and all was true. Thus, it makes sense if someone
>like Bell asked a guest, "how many times did you have sex with
>the alien," it then makes sense also to research this claim and
>exchange out a little.

>When Peter Gersten will 'quote me' in an interview, its wise to
>get it all, and not take a claim of activation, or nebulous
>number association, or any other claim, and then look a little
>closer at it. This is fair. When Bell edits a guest without
>recourse, it is best to find out what exactly went on for fact.

Mr. Stephens, the way you acted that night on the Art Bell show
was simply insane. The fact that you can not understand why Bell
cut you off is beyond me. Go back and listen to tape of that
night, it's nuts. Why wouldn't you have started with your list
of questions instead of the babble that occured between you and
Richard Hoagland? You had your shot and blew it!! It would have
been great to hear someone put RCH to the stone on some of the
"data" on his site. Was it just your hate for Hoagland that got
in the way of this? Or was it that you thought you were being
funny or sarcasitic and witty. I for one found you none of
these.

>If Hoagland has stolen NASA pictures on his web site, and he
>does, and claims they are 'Fireballs' over Turd Peak, when in
>fact they are solid rocket motor trails complete with exhaust
>plumes and the vehicles removed crudely from the original photo,
>it stands to reason other photos on his site are Frauds too. And
>then too, the claims associated are also Frauds.

Guilt by association is a dangerous thing Mr. Stephens. Let's
not throw the baby out with the bath water. If you have proof
that the photos are doctored then post it to a web site and
lets see it. Are you not doing the same thing you are so angry
with Mr Hoagland?

>Asked questions. If not, this 'field' of study will continue be
>the 'giggle' factor for Everyman everywhere. I honestly do not
>think any of you and the rest involved wish that. So, police
>oneself.

>Case in point: NASA and other 'guvmint' folks I've known for
>over 25 years think I'm nuts for even getting involved with this
>culture. I have been in it now for 100 days or so, other than a
>few mails over the years when I would drop in to see what in the
>world was happening, and have found many very serious and
>genuinely warm people, which is contrary to my initial
>assessment that I have written about just 2 months ago. I now
>feel that many of these folks need a more serious voice and
>support. In this, I find myself now defending elements of this
>culture that I laughed at internally a short time ago. If
>someone like me can be sucked into this field in seriousness,
>and must defend himself to 'officials' about the lies and
>delusions of people like Hoagland and others, then I think
>others must feel the same.

I don't think you were sucked in by anyone Mr. Stephens, you
came in like a swat team on a raid........here I am now duck.

>Then speak out. It doesn't hurt.

<snip>

>I nor many many others beyond those already mentioned have done
>any malice to anyone in this field. That should be remembered.
>It wasn't I who attacked anyone's intimate service to the United
>States. It wasn't I who cut off anyone after being invited to a
>'debate' on a radio show.

Your actions Mr. Stephens, your actions. What are you thinking?
Are you trying to help in some twisted way? What are you
thinking? For a whole hour on the Bell show you said nothing
that shed light on your claims that Hoagland was a fraud. All
you did was attack Hoagland with malicious intent and repeated
statements that you thought he was a liar.

>But I can state, being absolutely objective, with absolute fact,
>that there are those in this UFO culture who intentionally are
>out to do great harm and issue great shards of disinformation
>that is, and has, and will, only hurt this field of study
>further. Why, I'm not certain.

>And keep in mind, the people in question are the ones who are
>true liars in every way. They have stolen and falsified photos
>on their web sites, they will harbor and hide from the public a
>man who told a professional researcher that our nation's capital
>was going to thermonuclearize itself. They will hide a man who
>has lied to NASA to where he longer is welcome on any NASA site
>in the world. And the list goes on and on.

>You are forwarned. And the very people who really count in this
>industry, have done nothing untoward to anyone, and these are
>the ones these charalatans of dark purpose will attack with true
>dark malice, for absolutely no reason.

>Think people. What in the world is the purpose of this
>disinformation campaign by Bell-Hoagland-Gersten-Bara and that
>whole ilk of the macabre'.

>Wait till you see the 200 questions and just what Art Bell
>didn't want you all to hear. Then, you, the public, can really
>see just what disinformation and lies are all about. I have
>received over 1230 mails as of this morning that DEMAND the
>questions to be posted online publicly. Therefore, since Art
>Bell weaseled out, protecting his little freak show from anyone
>asking the 'Real Fraud' why he is a pathological liar of the
>darkest form, I will then post those questions and answers by me
>after a radio show wishes to field the questions to me and I
>will asked and answer them each. Or, a radio host can asked them
>and I'll answer them for Hoagland in absentia. Then they can be
>posted for further study.

We were waiting for those questions that night on the Bell show
Mr. Stephens. But, you dropped the ball. You in turn did exactly
what you blame others for... you attacked a person and showed no
proof of your claims. Hypocrisy is a bitter pill to swallow....
you've got to be choking.

>All things on balanace, that's fair.

>Perhaps cleaning a little in these dark corners of the industry
>is in order.

>Just a thought.

>Rational, good letters above. Thank you.

I move that this thread should be renamed 'Cleanup The Act'. In
subscribing to various lists I have read alot of wierd posts by
some equally wierd posters, (not this one of course <g>) but Mr.
Stephens takes the cake. I understand that there is alot of
debate on how things should be done in this field, and maybe not
one of us has the right answer right now. But, I think I know
how it shouldn't be done and IMHO Mr. Stephens you are the
poster child for the wrong way.

Thanks and good luck!

Scott Krause
Seattle

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