UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Jan > Jan 23

Re: What's The Point? - A Rant

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:31:44 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:42:40 -0500
Subject: Re: What's The Point? - A Rant

>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: What's The Point? - A Rant
>Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:04:54 PST

>>From: John W. Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: What's The Point? - A Rant
>>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:33:05 -0600

>>I am ashamed to admit that I kind of, sort of, maybe, in a way,
>>sometimes believe there might really be such a thing as UFOs.
>>Of course, then all of the sudden, awash in existentialism, I
>>begin to question my definitions of what reality is.  Is 'it'
>>something objective, 'out there', fixed and stable ruled by
>>immutable laws of physics, only marred by my pathetic interface
>>system, my random and half incoherent excuse for self-aware
>>consciousness, and generally half psychotic bad attitude?

>>of the likes of Art Bell, Richard Hoagland, god knows how many
>>other internet yahoos, radio talk show hosts, mega
>>bagzillionaire ex-CEO's, and their self-addled friends.

>>I give up.  Love and kisses.

>>John W. Ratcliff
>>Self Mutilating UFO Groupie

Dear John, Leanne, Entities lurking and Abductee/Believer
Wannabees, I shall endeavor to refrain from ranting and attempt
to address an opinion-oid of my own on the various woids written

>Unlike John, I am not ashamed to admit that there might be UFOs,
>ghosts, goblins, Chuppa-chups, fairies at the bottom of the
>garden, bigfoots (bigfeet?) and alien abductions, etc. (**Note
>the words _might_, please.) John, what a good rant, be careful
>though as it was fully coherent. Isn'to that breaking the
>tradition?  <g>

We are so pleased and happy to hear this, we shall celebrate
this very night with a freshly made bottle of Gripple!

>Like John I, too, love the topic of UFOs and scour the List,
>news agents, bookshelves and the web testing my credulity daily.
>Often I wonder, too, whether my 'interface' is awry because I
>want so much to believe in things for which the evidence is
>lacking. I really do want to believe.

Please, feel free to do so at any time.  Not only is it de
rigour, it also tickles...

>When I express my opinions as to why I am not a 'confirmed
>believer' in a very exacting, coherent and logical way, and
>probing for a proof positive I am assailed as if I am the
>Anti-Christ herself!

Uh, perhaps the anti Virgin.  And here is where I would like to
throw up.... sorry, I mean throw in my two cents.

You may be logical and coherent, and you are certainly
extracting, as well, your are a seeker of truth.  However I for
one, feel compelled to inform that in doing all of the above
coher-ing and logic-ing, that to me at least, you extract
something very personal in your posts.

Specifically, I am made to feel, in some of your posts, that for
_me_ to believe based on my experiences is what you denigrate.
I do not wish to impose what I perceive (note the word,
_perceive_), I do not wish to impose my perceptions on your
belief systems.  I perceive that I have been abducted on
numerous occasions since early childhood.

It's OK for you to believe that this perception on my part may
very well be a bit of undigested beef.  But to me, it is very
real.  I don't like hearing that I am full of Tyrannosaurus Dung
in believing my own experiences.

Further, your use and choice of words in decrying the belief
systems of others relating to religion, the Virgin or other
matters, is an insult to me, personally.

>The assailants, for the most part, seem not

Good choice of words... _assailants_ eh?  Makes me feel very
warm and toasty when I read the word. So anyone who does not
hold your opinion and tells you so, and further make the mistake
of telling you they are insulted by your attitude, is an

>to be able to step back and look at themselves and their
>'evidence' as would any unbiased and dispassionate researcher of
>any subject. (**Note I said _for the most part_.) I attacked _no
>individual_, but I have no compunction whatsoever about o
>attacking bad logic. I used religious references to point out
>their zeal and that reminds me: Which religion is the one true
>faith - each one _knows_ that it is? Which alien abduction/s
>scenario/s is/are the truth? There are far too, too many to
>choose from in religions and alien abductions and each one is
>adamant that their's is the way and the truth and the light. If
>they are all true then there are tens of thousands of gods and
>perhaps a few hundred totally different alien species with
>unique reasons to abduct you.
>(I dare say, the most 'believable' abduction stories are the
>ones where it happens without rhyme, reason, or explanation. It
>reminds me so much of human nature - where someone with the
>absolute power to do something will do it - coldly, bluntly,
>brutally - simply because they can and see no reason to do

'Scuse me.... por favor, but what the hell does that mean? _The
most believable abduction stories are the ones where it happens
without rhyme or reason_??? You are going to have to splain that
one, Lucy. I can only conclude that an abduction where it
happens with rhyme and reason is something that is
believable.... Duh!?

>As stated above there _might_ be all manner of curious things
on >our world, and around it, of the likes mentioned in this
List. >There actually might be! As there might be mentally
unwell >people who claim to be abductees there might equally be
those >who truly are abductees. (I feel terribly sorry for
either >experience as both appear equally horrible to go
through.) I am >fully entitled to not believe in them until the
proof is in the >pudding, just as others do already believe in

I take no exception to that.  But please, allow me to repeat
your previous posts and you decide if I am too sensitive, or
else I'm gettin soft.  I know, I know... another Dylan quote out
of context, sue me.

>I feel a bit sad
>for anyone whose life is so empty that they will choose a religion
>to fill it. In some ways it is sadder than the child who is raised
>in a particular religion, indoctrinated from birth, without ever
>being asked their permission.
>I consider myself a 'christian' (not Christian) in that I follow
>JC's tenet of "do unto others...", but there is no way I would join
>a church or organized religion and allow myself to be manipulated
>by such a group for their own self serving ends

Say, am I too sensitive or what?  Give at least some of us
enough credit for using our own brains and intellect.  By this
inappropriate remark(s) you are accusing me and others like me
that because I choose to practice a faith my life is empty?  And
the check is in the mail and don't worry sweetheart, I'm

And how about......

>Yes, people who have mental problems misperceive reality and
>that is why I added 'true-life experiencers' for all I know
>there may well be some - it is just unfortunate for your/their
>case that the evidence is lacking. Any 'true-life experiencers'
>words carry little more weight than those of others if there is
>no solid evidence to back them up - it's a fact of science life

Oh shoot, there I go again, being sensitive over someone telling
me I have mental problems.  God, I am such a dip!

And then there was the one about the.....

>This comment is sad, so sad . . . I don't have 'faith' that
>these happen and that makes me a 'sad person' - what illogical
>crap. Is this a religious List? When was EBK declared 'Il Papa
>del OVNI' and the List a diocese?
>Why should I be expected to believe something someone tells me
>about an 'alien abduction' any more than some religious nut
>ranting at me to have 'faith' in their belief that Mary was a
>virgin in the medical sense and not in a socially specificsense.

Now for the piece of resistance..... You have made your opinions
quite clear.  And I do not take exception to the basic message
you embrace.... "Give me the proof!"  Got no problem with that.
The problem I have is your choice of words, your attitude and
the manner in which you demean.... mean it or not.  That's the
way it comes across to me.

Just lower the volume a bit and I won't be so damned sensitive
at being referred to as a religious nut, misperceive reality and
generally have the same type of problems I would ordinarily have
on Gripple.


>On my recent holidays in Tasmania I happened upon two seperate
>crop circles. I did not ascribe any supernatural or 'out of this
>world' nature to them. I took them for what they are - anomolies
>that are awaiting an explanation. To my mind that is what UFOs,
>abduction experiences, etc., are - various anomolies (real or
>imagined) that are awaiting explanations.

Only too true, Leanne.

>Back to John's rant (sorry, mate, I didn't want to hijack your
>rant) - what's the point? When I grow up I'll buy a rant of my
>own . . . maybe a chicken rant, or a sheep rant, or a cattle
>rant, or a dude rant - I know, a Hoagland rant with lots of
>little Hoagies running around . . .

>Regards (stirring the possum as ever),
>Leanne  ];-)

I have a belief system, you have a belief system.  I am sure
that you recognize that whether it comes to religion, politics
and UFO's, there will be opinions.  Got no problem with
opinions, just a serious problem with voicing them with the
strength of the emotion.  And, I am the first to admit that when
it comes to religion, politics, nugs (I tend to be dyslexic) and
UFO's, I am the first person who should tone it down and wait
for the Valium to take affect.  For which I apologize to all

I reread all your posts.  Mixed in between the rancor and the
sarcasm, they make sense.

Oh, and by the way, I too, must apologize for my getting angry.
After your departure for Tasmania, I posted an apology to the
list which basically said that the next time I feel the urge to
merge logic and reason with emotion, I shall wait 24 hours to
cool off and the valium to kick in before hitting "SEND."


[ Next Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp

Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com