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08-07-96: MJ-12 - An Estimate of the Situation

From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:26:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:10:47 -0500
Subject: 08-07-96: MJ-12 - An Estimate of the Situation


From 8/7/96

Addresses the issue of provenance and genesis as well as the
issue of linkage of date elements. Items missing from the
original MJ-12 papers since their appearance on the UFO scene
and items currently missing from the Woods publicised research.
Same "research" MO.

The question to Stanton Friedman at the end of the reposted
message remains unanswered to this day. I repeat the question to
any of the proponents of the new MJ-12 papers. Is there anything
in your promotion that provides multiple, independent,
link-by-link, verified and direct chains of evidence that
establishes the genesis/provenance of the MJ-12 documents?

Ed Stewart

_____________________________________
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 06:13:32 -0400
To: ianr@global-data.com
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ebk@nobelmed.com>
Subject: UFO UpDate: MJ-12 - An Estimate of the Situation


From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart)
Subject: MJ-12 - An Estimate of the Situation
To: ebk@nobelmed.com
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:40:15 -0700 (PDT)


              RESPONSE TO NUCLEAR PHYSICIST STANTON T. FRIEDMAN

In my next message is a short and curt bibliography of the MJ-12
saga as it evolved through the UFO press in the US as
represented by IUR, JUST CAUSE, MUFON UFO JOURNAL, and UFO
MAGAZINE (by no means do I claim that the list is all
inclusive).

After being a subscriber to each of the above publications for
many years and having had the opportunity to secure all of their
back issues, my perception is that all four publications are
genuinely dedicated to getting to the bottom of the UFO problem,
no matter where the chips end up falling.

The listing is sorted by date of publication to show how MJ-12,
the associated claims, and ensuing research was handled and
viewed by Ufologists, but the MJ-12 saga had been circulating
through the so-called UFO grapevine for many years before the
first item listed. When the story first broke out publicly most
had high hopes that MJ-12 was the long awaited "smoking-gun" for
Ufology.

By 1990, those hopes had turned to the realization of most
Ufologists that MJ-12 was nothing more than a "Wild Goose", as
characterized in an editorial by that title by Jerome Clark in
IUR. This in spite of valiant efforts by various Ufologists
invoking FOIA searches, visiting archives, interviewing of
experts and vigorous correspondence/research with various
archives, libraries and agencies.

Notwithstanding were nuclear physicist Stanton T. Friedman's
heroic and unprecedented personal efforts digging through the
bowels of many, many, many archives, earning a finder's fee of
$1000 from super-skeptic Phil Klass (Phil didn't know one pica
from another), and uncovering, to an unsuspecting ufological
community, that super-skeptic-astronomer, Director of the
Harvard College Observatory and alleged MJ-12 staffer, Dr.
Donald H. Menzel, knew Japanese; knew a fellow Massachusettsian
and a Harvard Alumni, Senator John F. Kennedy, by his first name
"Jack"; worked during WWII in the Navy as a cryptologist;
continued to carry his association in that field as a consultant
into what became the NSA; survived a loyalty hearing during the
McCarthy era after fellow Massachusettsian, WWII buddy and
alleged MJ-12 staffer, Dr. Vannevar Bush, vouched for him; and
after "Jack" became President of the United States, hinted to
"Jack" that he wouldn't mind an appointment, as well as later
tried to stick it to alleged MJ-12 staffer and
non-Massachussettian, Dr. Detlev W. Bronk, in the political
"buddy-buddy", Presidential appointments game.

To this day nuclear physicist Stanton T. Friedman, the original
researcher of the Roswell case, holds the personal conviction
that MJ-12 is real, but he has failed to convince most serious
Ufologists of his personal belief system in spite of the fact
that nuclear physicist Stanton T. Friedman has published
numerous and numerous papers on MJ-12, all personally
autographed and currently available directly from him; or in
spite of nuclear physicist Stanton T. Friedman's 14 years in
industry working for General Electric, Aerojet-General
Nucleonics, General Motors, Westinghouse Astronuclear
Laboratory, and TRW Systems on some classified projects. (and
knowing one pica from another)

That is simply outrageous! How can that be? All of the above is
true and thoroughly documented by nuclear physicist Stanton T.
Friedman, the original Roswell researcher, who has visited 15
archives in his quest, and who originally had the blessings and
support of most of the Ufologists that are now extremely
doubtful of MJ-12?

All true, but none of the above has any direct linkage to
establishing that the MJ-12 documents are real.

First, data by its nature is perceived by us interpretatively
and interpretations are subject to error. So, how do we know
what we know? We know what we know by multiple, independent,
link-by-link, verified chains of evidence. That chain has to be
unbroken from the premise all the way through the evidence that
purports to substantiate the premise. All the links have to tie
together from one end of the chain to the other end. One link is
broken or missing and the premise is not validated.

As an example, suppose Mrs. Menzel said that her husband used to
utter in his sleep "MJ-12, MJ-12", over and over again, but she
didn't know what it meant? Or a note in Menzel's handwriting
scribbled to himself that said "must tell Jack about Bush/MJ-12"
and found in his papers? Those would be direct links once
authenticated through independent research to support that part
of the chain that Menzel may have had something to do with
MJ-12, but nothing such as that was found.

Also, since no agency has stepped forward and claimed the MJ-12
documents as their own, ownership has not been established.
Ownership has also not been established at the front end. The
source of the documents is anonymous. There is no genesis to the
MJ-12 documents. The links are busted at both ends of the chain.

I know that Stanton Friedman understands the concept from his
guest appearance on the Art Bell Show re-broadcast on Friday
night, Aug. 2/3, 1996:

On Santilli-Autopsy film and the need for identification of the
source documentation/evidence and ownership claim.

Stanton Friedman: "What I cannot do, Art, unfortunately, is tell
                   you that this film was made by company XYZ, on
                   January 39, 1992 at this studio.
                   I don't have the genesis of it, but the
                   ------------------------------
                   burden isn't on me to prove I said."

Art Bell:         "No smoking film canisters yet!"

Stanton Friedman: "That is right. [giggle, giggle, giggle]"

No genesis, no provenance. Same as the MJ-12 documents, all of
them, including the Cutler/Twining Memorandum. Even Stanton T.
Friedman agrees that it was planted in the archives and did not
belong there. It could have been anyone, an insider or an
outsider. What seems to be clear is that it was planted there
after the review process was completed. The Memo is an alleged
NSC document. The reviewers would not have been able to
arbitrarily declassify it. It would have been pulled out during
the page-by-page review and sent to the NSC for their
declassification review. The National Archives has no record of
that ever having been done and neither does the NSC.

I know that Stanton Friedman understands the concept of security
control and that the utmost of care and control would have taken
place during the above declassification review of top-secret
documents from the same guest appearance on the Art Bell Show
re-broadcast on Friday night, Aug. 2/3, 1996.

Discussing the Santilli-Autopsy/Cameraman's claims of how he
came to have the film:

Stanton Friedman: "That is not how classified stuff gets handle.
                   They are not casual about it."
                   ----------------------------

(From the above guest appearance, it is also clear that Stanton T. Friedman
 understands where the burden of proof lies from the first set of quotes
 earlier: )

Stanton Friedman: "I don't have the genesis of it, but
                   the burden isn't on me to prove I said."
                   --------------------------------------

Just as it is not up to Stanton T. Friedman to prove the genesis
of the Santilli Film, that burden falls on claimant Santilli, it
is not up to anyone, but to the proponent that the MJ-12
documents are real to prove the genesis of those documents.
After visiting fifteen archives, Stanton T. Friedman has not
uncovered anything that establishes the genesis of the MJ-12
documents. And neither have the efforts of all other researchers
that have attempted to find direct linkage to the claim that the
MJ-12 documents are real.

In response to Stanton Friedman's last message to this mailing
list:

>Ed made totally unsubstantiated charges that the MJ-12 documents
>are riddled with violations of Security protocol.. including not
>havinga TS code number. This is absurd . There are many formerly
>TS documents without code numbers.
>I noted 2 in my "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12", though
>there are several others in it as well.

My apologies. Violations of security would only be an accurate
expression if the MJ-12 documents were genuine. Stanton Friedman
has yet to establish that to be so. But, Friedman's logic is
simply amazing! Let's try to follow it in a slightly different
context.  Walker was a security breach. Oh! But wait one moment!
There is Ames! Therefore, Walker is not a security breach?
Sorry, that dog don't fly. Maybe nuclear physicist Stanton
Friedman, who worked for 14 years handling secret classified
documents, expects everyone to believe that control numbers on
Top Secret documents were only used on Tuesdays, and every other
Friday? No, I am sure that is not it. He is on record stating:

Stanton Friedman: "That is not how classified stuff gets handle.
                   They are not casual about it."
                   -----------------------------

We are expected to accept that MJ-12 was on the order of the
Manhattan Project, or the H-Bomb. And we are expected to accept
that the people involved were responsible, top-notch specialists
in the highest of positions within the military and the National
Security Council, some of which had careers in intelligence,
concerned, knowledgeable executives with the best of the best in
staff support, well aware that unauthorized disclosure could be
expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national
security. That gives us folks in the trenches a big clue. The
higher the classification level, the higher the control. The
higher the classification level, the higher the accountability.
The rule is more control, not less. The rule is more
accountability, not less. Never less.

Not only that, but with the introduction now of the alleged
MJ-12 Field Manual we are expected to accept that MJ-12 was an
ongoing project/operation with field troops involved out on the
field packing saucer debris and aliens by the specs requiring
the Manuals to go along with the field operations, exercises and
training that expanded a minimum of seven years duration. And
during all that time, MJ-12 documents were never brought under
proper control? That means if one was lost, misplaced,
destroyed, stolen, left at the site, or fallen off the back of
the truck, a review or an audit would not discover the security
breach! Or for that matter, if any compromise had ever occurred!
Simply amazing! It would have been Friday night pinochle game at
the barracks for everyone. After all, EBE was safely packed away
and there was no accountability for the field manuals.

>I have also pointed to my  list of
>more than 30 details in the documents that were not known to
>anybody on the outside before the documents were received.

Do any one of them establish the genesis of MJ-12, or provide a
direct link which establishes the authenticity of MJ-12? Nope.
If they did we wouldn't be having this dialogue. Your 13 points
on Dr. Donald Menzel are irrelevant (see above). Same applies to
all of the details you enumerated. None provide a direct link
which establishes the authenticity of the MJ-12 documents or
their genesis. Besides, the real question should not be
"...before the documents were received", but "...after the
rumors of MJ-12 were being whispered throughout the UFO
community." That would be circa 1980, not after 1984. Until
genesis/provenance is established for the MJ-12 documents, the
important date is 1980, not 1984, and the possibility of a hoax
perpetrated by an "outsider" is just as valid as the possibility
of a hoax/disinformation by an "insider" with the window of
opportunity starting when the rumors first started circulating.

>If the documents were frauds, they had to have been prepared
>by insiders not outsiders.

Not necessarily so. As you are so fond of saying: "Absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence". Since the
genesis/provenance of the MJ-12 documents has never been
established, anyone with ample time to research an MJ-12 type
scenario could have found out about the details and constructed
a scenario around them. Not one detail provides a direct link to
the authenticity of the MJ-12 documents or to the genesis of
MJ-12. MJ-12 was floating around as rumor in the UFO grapevine
for many years before Shandera received the rolls of anonymous
film in his mailbox. Whoever felt motivated to, could have
constructed MJ-12, whether it was an "insider" or "outsider",
and had years to prepare and work bugs out of a working script.

>Considering the following papers, it is difficulkt to
>understand references to Just Caus, especially when noting that
>archival research is certainly not their strong point.

And neither is IUR's, MUFON JOURNAL's, or UFO Magazine's strong
point. But, since your heroic and unprecedented archival
research produced nothing that established the provenance of the
MJ-12 documents or discovered any independent direct link to the
authenticity of MJ-12, they have all turned away from MJ-12 in
the hopes of more viable pursuits. They all seem to understand
that the MJ-12 documents have no provenance, That is one of the
strong points of the above publications. Even though nuclear
physicist Stanton T. Friedman understands the concept, he
ignores it when it comes to MJ-12.

>l."Final Report on Operation Majestic 12",1990, 108 pages, $14.
>many documents, even a copy of Klass' check for $1000. for
>providing 10 documents in the large PICA type of the Cutler Twining
>memo. He set a limit of $1000.He hadn't been to the Ike Library..mail
>order research is costly and misleading.

Yes. But unfortunately, Phil Klass not knowing one pica from
another, does not do anything to establish the provenance of
MJ-12, nor does it do anything towards providing direct linkage
to the authenticity of MJ-12.

>2."Crashed Saucers, Majestic 12 and the Debunkers," MUFON paper,
>July 1992, 21pgs. 48 Ref. $4.

Is this the paper that establishes the provenance of MJ-12? Or
provides that chain of direct linkage documentation that
supports the claim that MJ-12 is real? It didn't when you
presented it at the MUFON Conference in 1992. Have you rewritten
it since? Whatever you do, don't take out the part that says:

      "Literally millions, if not billions, of classified
       documents have been created. Very few not officially
       declassified have been released because of the very
       tight security procedures."

And when they have been leaked, such as the Pentagon Papers,
provenance was quickly established. Not so with the alleged MJ-12
documents.

>3."Operation Majestic 12? YES!". Augusr l994, 37pgs.several
>documents. Detailed refutation of Kevin Randle's MJ-12 writings.
>$4.

Okay, you say it refutes Randle, but does it establish the
provenance of the MJ-12 documents? Or provide that chain of
direct linkage documentation that supports the claim that MJ-12
is real? Inquiring minds want to know.

>4."TOP SECRET/MAJIC" Hardcover July 1996, Marlowe and Co.,
>272p. Detailed review of the whole MJ-12 Controversy including
>debunkers such as Klass, Randle, Sagan, the USAF. $25.
Autographed. >Includes some never before published MJ-12
documents and has 10 pages >of references. All items available
from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, >ME 04730-0958. All Prices in US $
and include postage. >Canadians can write UFORI at POB 3584,
Fredericton, NB E3A 5J8

Okay, we already know about debunkers but does your new book
establish the provenance of MJ-12? Does it provide the
independent direct links to show that MJ-12 is real? Both
American and Canadian inquiring minds want to know.

And why do you completely ignore in your "detailed review" the
early history of the MJ-12 saga? Not one word of the Aquarius
document and its connections to William Moore and Richard Doty.
Not one word of the unsuccessful attempts to sell a fiction book
based on MJ-12 by William Moore and a pseudonym co-writer,
pseudo-initials of "RD", Richard Doty perhaps?, and Bob Pratt
who was brought in to provide polished writing? Bob Pratt
quickly washed his hands of the MJ-12 saga when they were
publicly revealed to the UFO community in 1987 with the Aquarius
documents in support of them. And not one word in your book
about the CIA/MJ-5 Memo either? Whatever happened to that
document that was initially presented as supportive of MJ-12?
All were presented originally to the UFO community as all coming
from the same sources. Your "detailed review" of the
introduction to the MJ-12 documents to the UFO community in your
new book has left out quite a lot and appears to be highly
selective. Care to discuss why?

>I repeat, if Mr. Stewart has some reason for believing the
>MJ-12 documents are riddled with security protocol violations
>let him put them on the table along with just how he knows what
>protocol is.

Your question on how I know is totally not relevant and the
reason is simple. My knowing or not knowing, either way, does
not add any relevance as to whether or not the MJ-12 documents
are real. Just like Klass not knowing his picas does not provide
direct linkage to your claim that the documents are real. Your
question is nothing but a distraction, a ruse, a debating tactic
to throw the discussion onto a tangential course away from the
real issue. What is relevant are the alleged documents
themselves and whether or not they stand up on their own to the
level required to create a chain of compelling evidence directly
linked to each other, data point from data point, that supports
your claim that they are real. That is your burden and one that
you have yet to demonstrate to the ufological community after
having visited 15 archives.

Having said that, security clearances that one may have held in
the past are totally irrelevant to the establishment of
authority on the subject. All that a security clearance means is
that the individual passed a backgrounds check and nothing was
found in the individual's past that would keep that individual
from being granted the clearance. Background checks are more
stringent the higher the clearance being granted.

Also, having been granted a security clearance says nothing to
the effect that the individual ever was placed in a position
that required actual access to classified documents. What it
does mean is that someone earlier made the determination that
the position could, during the course of business, have a need
to access that level of classification. And who wants to wait
six months at minimum for the clearance approval? So, the
individual holding that desk/position/job had to have the
required clearance before taking over the assignment in order to
fulfill the requirements of the position. Nothing more and
nothing less.

Access is based on a need to know basis and critically
controlled. An individual reading a classified document would be
breaking security if the document was discussed with the person
sitting next to them, who could actually have a higher
clearance, but not a need to know. In the world of ufology there
are plenty of people out there who make it a point to taunt
their audiences with personal revelations of any past clearances
they may/may not have had. How often have we heard lines such
as: "I held a Cosmic Top Secret and therefore I was granted
access to this special vault where there was this book with an
orange cover". It is a strict appeal to emotion and authority
and it reaches only those that have never had a clearance in the
first place, a sales pitch more designed to enthrall an audience
than to establish credibility and also falling far short of
establishing a direct link that such a thing ever occurred in
the first place in the absence of independent verification.

Having said that, would you believe me if I told you I cruise
the Web? Hmmm!

Would you believe me if I told you I read a lot? Hmmm!

Would you believe me if I told you I have a consultant friend
who for many years held various duties in the military such as:
Top Secret Control Officer, Top Secret Destruction Official,
Security Manager, Classified Document Custodian, COMSEC
Custodian, and also held a Critical Nuclear Weapons Position?
Hmmm!

Would you believe me if I told you that this consultant friend
has also visited just about as many different archives as you?
Hmmm!

Would you believe me if I told you this consultant friend has
discussed many of these same issues with you, but some that I
have not brought up, last year at the Connecticut UFO Conference
and that you admitted to him last year that yes, there are a lot
of problems with the MJ-12 documents? Hmmm!

Would you believe me if I told you that it is in his expert
opinion

        (opinions are not decisive, but nuclear physicist
         Stanton Friedman seems to be impressed with people
         that have handled classified documents and have done
         heroic and unprecedented archival research)

that "the MJ-12 documents are highly suspect and their validity
is extremely doubtful and if genesis/provenance can't be
established they should not be at the core of UFO research"?
Hmmm!

Would you believe me if I told you I have handled classified
documents as part of my past responsibilities both in the
military and later in Civil Service within the infrastructure of
the Department of Defense in two different Commands for over 14
years, and that part of that time included briefing flag
officers, both on a scheduled basis and on demand, and
represented the Command at interservice meetings held with and
without the Air Staff on assigned projects, as well as preparing
correspondence on assigned projects for flag officer signature
to other Commands, the Air Staff, other Services, and various
Agencies outside of DoD, including OMB? Hmmm!

What does that mean? Absolutely NOTHING in terms of establishing
credibility or authority in relation to the MJ-12 available
evidence. It may well get a college auditorium all excited, but
it does not do anything to establish the validity of the
evidence. The evidence has to stand on its own with all the data
points linked to each other from one end of the chain of
evidence to the other. What it does mean is that I am not
exaggerating when I say that flag officer correspondence had to
be PERFECT! No mistakes, no errors. PERFECT, on the basis of my
personal experiences, but then again, I never had any experience
with any correspondence or briefings involving "MJ-12", or any
other sloppy alleged groups that have no genesis. Hmmm!

Well, if you answered yes to all of the above would-you-believe
questions, you would be right on the money.

>My many weeks at archives have certainly shown that there are many
>variations in all aspects of marking and handling highly classified
>documents. I already knew that from my 14 years in industry 1956-1970
>handling classified documents, but visits to Archives are very
>educational.
>Stan Friedman

My hopes are that someday a chain of evidence showing direct
linkage from data element to data element and genesis/provenance
will be established. For the last two decades since the first
whispers of MJ-12, ufology appears mostly to have stood still,
chasing one after the other alleged "revelations", all of which
share  a commonality with MJ-12: no genesis/provenance.

I have but one question for Stanton Friedman. Is there anything
in your new book that provides multiple, independent,
link-by-link, verified and direct chains of evidence that
establishes the genesis/provenance of the MJ-12 documents?

Ed Stewart

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - |	So Man, who here seems principal alone,
"There is                     |	Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
 Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
 -Salvador Freixedo-  ( O O ) |	'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
-------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------


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