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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Oct > Oct 4

Re: Abductions: A Funny Thing Happened...

From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:52:57 GMT
Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:07:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Abductions: A Funny Thing Happened...

 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: Re: Abductions: A Funny Thing Happened...
 >Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999

 >>From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Abductions: A Funny Thing Happened...
 >>Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999

 >>Is there any evidence that would selectively discriminate
 >>between these theories:

 >>1. That the same off-world beings that pilot the craft are also
 >>perpetrating the abductions.

 >>2. That abductions are Out-of-Body Experiences, Lucid Dreams or
 >>cases of Awareness during Sleep Paralysis that are unrecognized
 >>or incompletely recalled.

 >>I know that there are advocates of each point of view. But if we
 >>were to sit down to soberly sift the evidence available now, do
 >>we find any that is simultaneously consistent with one theory
 >>but inconsistent with the other?

 >Very lucid thinking. To me, though, there are some intermediate
 >stages -- are abductions physical experiences at all? And if
 >they are, how do we know they involve the same beings
 >responsible for UFOs?

Some abductees say that they suffered a psychic or spiritual
abduction. I take this to mean that they believe that their Soul
or spiritual essence was taken but that their physiological body
was left behind in bed or in the car where it was before the

Consequently, we would want to ask: What is the nature of the
abduction currently under consideration (as not all abductions
may be of the same type)? Do we have any evidence that this
abduction involved other beings? And, if so, what sort of
beings? Human covert agents? Temporally displaced humans?
Physically embodied aliens? Spiritual/Demonic? Interdimensional?

 >I understand Joe's point, though. These two theories are the
 >main ones out there. One hurdle in answering Joe's question, of
 >course, is to know what "evidence" is. Abductees claim, with
 >abduction researchers seconding them, that they have marks on
 >their bodies that can't be explained, that they wake up in
 >clothes they didn't go to bed in, that they wake up with
 >unexplainable stains on their bodies. Are these claims -- and
 >the visible marks, and garments still bearing the stains --

If we were talking about a kidnapping, would we consider marks
on the body and these other items as evidence? If so, then what
rational reason would we have to deny that these items are
evidence just because we're talking about an abduction?

Certainly these items are evidence. Evidence of what, that is
the question?

 >If we accept these assertions, then abductions would
 >seem to be real experiences, not lucid dreams or awareness
 >during sleep paralysis. (Unless we want to assume that the marks
 >are like stigmata, generated by the mind.)

I wouldn't want to assume that the marks are generated by the
mind, but I might want to consider that and similar

 >Then there are many abductees who claim to remember abductions
 >in which they're taken away in UFOs. The Hill case is only the
 >most famous of these. Often enough abductees claim to remember
 >these abductions without hypnosis. Are these accounts
 >"evidence"? If they are, then they establish an apparent
 >connection between abduction experiences and UFOs,

Yes, experiencer reports do establish an apparent link between
abduction experiences and UFOs. Those who wish to deny that
there is a real link between the two would have to explain why
there is an apparent link. If someone claimed it was due to
intentional deception by human covert agents and/or demonic
beings, we'd expect him/her to present some evidence.

If someone said that the apparent link is due to a real link
between the two phenomena, we should also expect to see a
presentation of evidence.

But we don't.

Joseph Polanik

Joseph Polanik, jpolanik@mindspring.com
Trionic Research Institute, http://trionica.com

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