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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 1999 > Oct > Oct 8

Re: UFO Engaged During Vietnam War?

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:59:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 17:55:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Engaged During Vietnam War?

 >Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:14:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Engaged During Vietnam War?

 >>From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@logicon.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Engaged During Vietnam War?
 >>Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:11:22 -0700

 >>>Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:34:10
 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
 >>>Subject: UFO Engaged During Vietnam War?


 >Talking about someone actually being involved in such a very
 >similar UFO incident during the Vietnam War, aliens included,
 >listen to the July 4 and August 30 1999 archived interviews by
 >Sergeant Clifford E. Stone, U.S. Army (retired) on Jeff Rense's
 >Sightings website.  If Clifford Stone's account is true, then
 >this could be another example of fact being even stranger than


 >Nick Balaskas

Nick, List, all -

I have thought long and hard about responding to this post. I
have found myself on the "wrong" side in too many debates and
have contributed to the ongoing discussions that could be
described as "character assassination," though I have attempted
to refrain from personal comments. I have not always been
successful in that, but I am aware of the difference between an
attack on the character of someone and the stating of fact as
opposed to rumor, half-truth, and innuendo.

That said, I cannot allow this nonsense by Cliff Stone go
unchallenged. I have known Cliff for ten years. I have visited
his home, been to dinner in his home, and listened as his
stories of his UFO related activities have evolved. If we
believe him, then he has been involved in every major UFO
sighting since before he was born... yes, he wasn't at Holloman
when the UFO alleged landed there in 1964, but he saw the films.
Somehow he was in a place to see the acorn-shaped UFO from
Kecksberg trucked into or out of a military base. He has been
consulted by high-ranking military and government officials,
been threatened, transferred, and nearly killed or imprisoned
... at least, according to him. And I have told him that I just
don't believe it. I told him that sitting in his living room,
after he had told his Vietnam tales of sneaking through the wire
to meet with the secret UFO people.

I have told everyone who asked, after I met Cliff, that I found
his stories to be... extreme. The very first day I met him,
while he was off duty, yet in his sergeant's uniform, he tried
to convince me of his... inside knowledge. After he paced in
front of us (Don Schmitt, Ralph Heick, Don Mitchell and me) for
a while, smoking a cigar and lecturing on the topic of UFOs,
Cliff said he had to go out to the car. He returned carrying a
bundle of papers and allowed us to glimpse the Top Secret cover
sheet on them. At that moment I knew that Cliff was putting us
on. If he had top-secret material, and if he left it in the car,
and if he was bringing them now, into the house to store, then
he was going to jail because that is not the way that top-secret
documents are treated. They are stored in a vault and there
wasn't one in Cliff's home office. Yes, I know because I have
been in the room.

Cliff also showed me a document, recovered through FOIA (and
there is no denying that he has worked the FOIA requests long
and hard retrieving some interesting material) that he said
showed the Chilean Air Force had attacked a UFO, hit it with
missiles, and did no damage to it. Well, the document actually
said that the Chilean Air Force had fired missiles without
results. We could interpret that to mean they missed. Cliff drew
a conclusion that wasn't proven by the facts he had. Not a big
thing, but it showed that his thinking wasn't as critical as it
could be. (And yes, I'm sure there are those here who would say
the same as me... but, I do know the difference.)

As we left that first night, more than ten years ago, Cliff
pointed to the military sticker on his car, which was blue, and
asked me, if he was just a sergeant, and officers had blue
stickers, why was his blue. I shrugged and said nothing, but I
did know the answer. About ten years before that (mid-1970s),
the Air Force changed their stickers so that everyone got a big
blue sticker that identified the car as registered on base, and
a much smaller, color coded one that identified the owner as an
officer, NCO, enlisted, retired, civilian, etc. The smaller
sticker was the proper color for an NCO but it told me one more
thing about Cliff.

There are other examples of this... exaggeration. He once showed
me a document listing a number of people, including him, that
provided their security clearances. Everyone had a secret
clearance except Cliff. He had a top secret. He thought this
unusual, or rather suggested to me it was unusual. I didn't
mention that my clerk/typist had a top-secret clearance as well,
not for any sinister purpose but because as a clerk he might be
exposed to top-secret material if we were deployed. Cliff's
having a top-secret clearance meant nothing.

So now we get to his Vietnam adventures. The first I had heard
of these was in UFO magazine. I was surprised that they would
publish the story. Don Ecker did write a companion piece that
suggested he didn't believe what Cliff was claiming. I talked to
Don about that and told him that I had a similar reaction. In
fact, all of those in the UFO field who are also Vietnam
veterans seemed to have a similar reaction. The story is not
true. You did not sneak through the wires are night without
getting shot at. This smacks of the wannabe stories we hear
today of clerks who, at night, sneaked through the wire to got
out in search of the enemy. It didn't happen.

This is a very long winded way to say that, basically, that
these tales now being told by Cliff are simply not true. I have
attempted to provide some evidence for my suggestion that they
are not true, and provide some background so that you all will
understand that I have been in a position to know how these
things work and they don't work the way Cliff has said they do.

This is not to say that Cliff hasn't contributed a great deal to
the field. His understanding of the classification systems, his
documenting of various activities, his work on Project Moon Dust
and Operation Blue Fly has provided some real insight into the
military and UFOs. These have been, and are, important
contributions. However, when he begins to speak of inside
knowledge and suggest that he has first-hand knowledge, I think
we need to leave the lecture.


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