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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2001 > Nov > Nov 25

Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001 - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:32:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:29:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001 - Oberg

 >Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:59:28 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>


 >Well, now you have some documentation. Perhaps you should do
 >your own digging before dismissing things. I'm surprised at you.
 >While I don't know what your research capabilities are, I can
 >imagine that you would have access to many resources to find the
 >data you need.


Hmm, let's see who needs a finger wagged at, and who's been
lazy. Regarding Cernan's quote, thanks for the date of the
original citation, I presume 28 years is barely enough time to
verify that a newspaper clipping reflected the astronaut's true
opinion, especially when that attributed opinion was 'useful' as
propaganda. Have we established that EVERY ONE of us on this
discussion is in agreement that the newspaper article was an
accurate reflection of what Cernan really said or meant? Just
trying to establish the consensus here.

Second, I note that NOBODY has touched the X-15 Bob White
'testimony' fraud that my investigation on original cited
sources uncovered, and details of which I posted recently? Do we
presume from this that 'silence implies consent' and that
everybody here is agreeable to posting the faked version of his
actual description of the small, tumbling, paper-shaped
doohingee he spotted outside his window? Is that the consensus,
and if not, what is anybody going to DO about it (right, other
people's mistakes are not our responsibility to correct -- you
can sense this attitude from some smarmy posts about
'how-dare-he?' question useful propaganda bites, whether
accurate or not.

Third, here's another piece of original research on another
'famous' pro-UFO quote from Wernher von Braun. Your reaction (or
lack of reaction) will be interesting.

Famous 'Wernher von Braun' UFO quotation debunked.
James Oberg

There is a widespread quotation attributed to Wernher von Braun
in 1959, apparently first printed by Timothy Good, as follows:

"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than
we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to
us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in
entering into closer contact with those powers, and in six or
nine months time it may be possible to speak with some precision
on the matter."

This comment comes from "News Europa" Jan. 1959 and refers to
mysterious events during the re-entry phase of the Juno 2 rocket
during a test flight.

One Internet example is:


The reference is to the Pioneer-IV moon probe, launched by the
Army-built Jupiter IRBM with upper stages, in December 1958.

My colleague Tasillo Roemisch of Space Service Intl. in
Mittweida, Germany, went to the Deutsche Buecherei in Leipzig
and found out the following:

The magazine 'Neues Europa'(14 issues per year, all issues had
only 8 pages.) ceased publishing at the end of the sixties. Its
full title reads correctly:

Neues Europa. Das f=FChrende Weltblatt fuer alle Fragen der
kommenden Entwicklung. Verlag August Kraemer GmbH, Stuttgart
(New Europe. The leading World Magazine for all questions of the
coming development).

Roemisch checked all issues of the years 1959 and 1960 and found
out that they had been supporting a Karl Michalek who lived in
Santiago de Chile at that time and who claimed to be the
"President of the Coming World Republic Earth". He was sure that
the Venusian ET's were going to land in Berlin soon. Furthermore
the writers often wrote about the well known UFO personality
George Adamski and his associates.

Wernher von Braun was only mentioned one time, and that was in
issue no. 3 (Febr. 01, 1959) when they wrote that "Prof. Oberth,
the colleague of the German-American Wernher von Braun...
believes in the existence of extraterrestials living in the star
constallation Tau-Zeta, the Uranides."

The article footnoted by Good and so widely and trustingly
disseminated (issue no. 1, January 01, 1959, page 2) doesn't
mention von Braun at all. It read as follows. The headline was
"Sensationelle Zeichen aus dem Weltraum" (sensational signs from
outer space), and this is the sub-text:

"Interplanetarische Kr=E4fte, welche die irdischen Mond- Raketen
aus ihrer Bahn lenken" (interplanetary forces which direct
terrestrial moon rockets out of track), followed by "Russische
und amerikanische Fern- Raketen, die ihre Ziele nicht erreichen
- Demonstration der Venus- Kr=E4fte?"

(Russian and American rockets which don't reach their goals -
demonstration of the Venusian forces?)

The article itself: Saturday Dec 06, 1958. Fourth attempt of the
USA moonrocket failed. Juno 2 was hindered in an altitude of
100,000 km to fly higher and came back.

"Amerikanische Sachverst=E4ndige betonen, dass es im Weltall
Kr=E4fte gibt, welche die irdischen Raketen aus ihren
vorberechneten Bahnen ablenken, ihre Fluggeschwindigkeit
reduzieren und sie wieder in die Lufth=FClle der Erde

(American specialists emphasize that there are forces in outer
space to mislead terrestial rockets out of their calculated
tracks to reduce their speed and to send them back to the
atmosphere of the Earth)

The author was Albert Laurent and he claimed the Russian and
Indian researchers have said about the same.

As one would expect from an Adamski-ite rag, the real science
and technology was hopelessly garbled. The American moon probes
had followed gravitational trajectories with no outside
interference suspected, even then; instead, problems with the
booster rockets put them on the wrong initial courses.

This investigation of the actual rather than the distorted
'quotation' inaccurately attributed to Wernher von Braun is not
expected to have any impact on the false versions now extant on
the WWW.

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