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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2001 > Nov > Nov 27

Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001 - Mortellaro

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:24:37 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:19:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001 - Mortellaro


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001
 >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:17:14 -0400


 >>Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:34:13 -0800 (PST)
 >>From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>>From: James Oberg <joberg@houston.rr.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001
 >>>Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:32:23 -0600

 >>>>Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:59:28 -0800 (PST)
 >>>>From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
 >>>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #47 - 2001
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>

 >>><snip>

 >>>>Well, now you have some documentation. Perhaps you should do
 >>>>your own digging before dismissing things. I'm surprised at you.
 >>>>While I don't know what your research capabilities are, I can
 >>>>imagine that you would have access to many resources to find the
 >>>>data you need.

 >>><snip>

 >>>Hmm, let's see who needs a finger wagged at, and who's been
 >>>lazy. Regarding Cernan's quote, thanks for the date of the

 >>Did someone call you lazy? Wag a finger at me all you like. It
 >>doesn't bother me.

 >>>original citation, I presume 28 years is barely enough time to
 >>>verify that a newspaper clipping reflected the astronaut's >true
 >>>opinion, especially when that attributed opinion was 'useful'
 >>>as propaganda. Have we established that EVERY ONE of us on this
 >>>discussion is in agreement that the newspaper article was an
 >>>accurate reflection of what Cernan really said or meant? Just
 >>>trying to establish the consensus here.

 >>Have you read the article? If I want to, I have a couple of
 >>sources from which I could get a copy. I don't choose to. I
 >>wasn't making the claim that the quote wasn't real. While you
 >>didn't exactly make that claim, you certainly hinted at it.

 >>Do you have some evidence that suggests that the story doesn't
 >>reflect his view (at the time)? If so, quit beating around the
 >>bush and present it.

 >>As for the rest of your message, 'who cares'? I'm sorry, I
 >>don't. What you posted had nothing to do with the comment I
 >>made. I think you have and you _can_ do good work. I think you
 >>were wrong about the Cernan quote. If you have proof that
 >>suggests otherwise, let us know. Otherwise, why can't you admit
 >>you made a mistake?

 >>It is interesting that George Filer conceded he could be wrong
 >>and even thanked you for correcting him. It would appear that
 >>some take your word/work at face value. Hopefully, this incident
 >>will be a lesson to all of us.

 >>Rebecca


 >Was gone for the weekend or would have chimed in sooner. I was
 >living in the LA area when the Cernan article appeared. Called
 >the journalist to see if the quote was accurate. He said it was
 >and referred me to NASA Houston for the transcript. The quote
 >was accurate. I located Cernan. The quote was accurate. He even
 >gave me a lecture I could have given him about UFOs and evidence
 >and the huge universe etc.

 >I would certainly agree that there are lots of phony UFO quotes
 >out there including some attributed to me. Each must be taken on
 >its own merits or demerits as the case might be.

 >I am a few years behind in my filing, and have moved several
 >times since the article appeared, so probably cannot easily lay
 >my hands on it now.


 >Stan Friedman

Hello Stan, List, Errol,

Here is a situation where NASA in their infinite lack of wisdom,
also lacks the Cajones to say the truth. Yet again. In 1966,
1967 and in 1968, whilst assigned to OAO, and with my own ears,
I listened to Courten and Sagan say the truth. In a bad place in
Baltimore. In fact, it was East Baltimore Street where them
loose womens removed their raiment. As I recall, the place was
called the Gaiety Bar and Strip Joint ... or something to that
effect. East Baltimore Street was and still is, one hummer
dinger of a Street... woof!

(sigh)

I was there only to do research on dance, as an art form, of
course!

Ahem, anyway, Sagan AND Courten both understood the value of UFO
reports and told me straight on that there was something to the
phenom. Sagan was then a believer. So was Courten. Why or
whether Sagan changed his mind or had it changed for him is
quite another question. After leaving Grumman and NASA, I went
to work for Singer Kearfott on the NAGS Polaris Poseidon
project. There, I continued to teach astronomy at Fairly
DIckenson and kept my relationship with both men until about
1975. Never once did either man change his opinion on the
subject. In fact, their interest and their knowledge grew.
Problem then was, they were becoming a lot less vociferous (in
private) about what they knew or suspected.

Another victory for the absolute Untruth, also known as "Truthus
Interuptus. The moral of this story, the moral of this song, is
that one should never be, where one does not belong.

Which in the cases of Sagan and Courten, was the Gaiety Bar and
Strip Jernt in beautiful Downtown Baltimore. A place where the
bottom end of large Coke bottles miraculously disappear ... sort
of.....


Jim







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