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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2003 > Dec > Dec 11

Re: Mr. Roberts Of The "Unknown-Unknown" - Roberts

From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:56:20 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:50:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Mr. Roberts Of The "Unknown-Unknown" - Roberts

>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:12:55 -0600
>Subject: Re: Mr. Roberts Of The "Unknown-Unknown"


Al wrote...

>Arrogant, elitist, and huffy,

Yes thanks Alfred.

>You could abandon ufology and cyberspace... sir, that will
>handily solve your mailbox difficulties, and I trust this was
>concise enough for you?

The current (and there's been many) attempt to hound me out of
ufology because I annoy believers and get results continues to
amuse those in the know. Why would you want to do this Alfred?

>But re-establishing focus (something I'm sure you're loath to
>do, Mr Roberts?),

I think you'll find Alfred I have never shunned 'the focus',
everyone else seems to have. Thanks for bringing it back.

>In "The Usual Suspects," Mr. Burns iterates how Mr. Andy Roberts
>(et. al.) works to suppress information at its source and how he
>gets a false story accepted. Burns underscores methods used to
>undermine witnesses. Burns goes on to show how UFO research is
>attacked directly, how the researcher is attacked in a similar
>fashion, and how communication is suppressed to facilitate these

I know exactly what Max wrote. As I've said before, much of the
information in there is factual. Equally, much isn't. What is
completely wrong is the join the dots way Max has formed
conspiracy where none exists.

Now Alfred, let me ask you a question:

Where, in Max's article, does it state I 'intimidated' a
witness? I don't think it does. And do you know why not? Because
I never interviewed any witnesses in this case. Please read
things _properly_ and learn how to comprehend them.

>Mr. Burns is elequent with regard to witness intimidation and
>how that process (of isolating individuals open to different
>ideas) works.

Again Alfred, a question:

Who exactly am I supposed to have 'intimidated' - please answer
'cos I'm dying to know Again, get your facts right..

>He chronicles the process of "hoaxing to order"
>to facilitate hidden agendas and how hypocracy is used to
>destroy the independance (and efficacious interdependance) of

And once more with feeling Alfred - who exactly am I supposed to
be 'hoaxing to order for'? Please answer. In English. I'd love
to know. I hoax for my own amusement.

>All in all a pretty damning account, Mr. Roberts, given
>that he's published in a periodical of _some_ respect... (at
>least you haven't yet thought to to try to destroy the
>reputation of that periodical too), and has provided almost 60
>citations to support his contention.

I'm afraid that Nuts From the Borderland is written by a man
_so_ crazed that he used to search through people's dustbins
looking for information. Larry runs a very small circulation
para-political journal read only by those who see sonspiracy
round every corner. As I've said before listers - buy it, read
it and make

>Its no wonder that you won't
>answer Mr. Burns challenge to a public debate... it's pretty
>obvious you're all about _nothing_ and more comfortable standing
>in your duplicitous and destructive shadows doing your 'work'
>such that it is.....

Alfred, please, calm down. Why would I wish to debate in public
with Max? I didn't investigate this particular case. I'm happy
to debate with Max in public the accusations he raises against
me in the article, but that's all I can do. I spoke at length
with Max when I was lecturing at the BUFORA conference. We got
along quite amiably. He still doesn't agree with my version of
events, and I certainly don't agree with his. Please read the
article again and answer my questions above, with quotes and
page numbers.

Fact is Alfred, you can't.

>In closing (and until you stick your head up over the berm
>again) let me remind you publically that your pissy little
>personal notes to me in E-mail are unwelcome, forgetting that
>they don't have the effect on me you'd like to think they have.

I email you privately in an attempt to get you to understand
just how stupid you are. Clealy it doesn't work. You'll be
rooting through my dustbins next!

>I'm neither amused nor entertained.

Well, boo-hoo.

>I've been warned by others that this is a tactic that you (et
>al) use to needle and intimidate and control... Forgetting for a
>moment how pathetic and ineffective they are, at present they
>only increase my desire to rip off your literary head and use
>your bubbling throat for a field toilet. I hope I've been
>abundantly clear. Thanks.

Sadly Alfred, you're rarely clear. Go through this email again
and answer my questions. Go on, off you go.

And to the others involved in Max's little game. Instead of
wasting Errol's List with your nonsense, why not get together by
email, come up with a list of clear and concise questions and
post them here. I promise to answer each one as fully as I can.
Then you can all crawl back under your stones until the next
conspiracy comes along.

Are you organised enough to do this? I very much doubt it.

Ufologists eh?

Happy Trails


'...Andy Roberts seems less like a government agent than anybody
I have ever met, but of course that might show what a very good
agent he is!' -- John Rimmer, Magonia 83, December 2003