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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2003 > Dec > Dec 13

Re: Asking Jesus For Intervention Stops Abductions

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:07:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:27:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Asking Jesus For Intervention Stops Abductions

>From: Tim Shell <tshell@vcmails.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:30:09 -0600
>Subject: Re: Asking Jesus For Intervention Stops Abductions

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:57:02 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Asking Jesus For Intervention Stops Abductions

>>Let's make a distinction between those who are 'imagining' they
>>are being abducted and those who are ACTUALLY being abducted and
>>this thread will suddenly begin to make some sense. I resent the
>>lack of distinction between the two here in this thread.

Hello Tim,

You write"

>I don't want to even to try to dispute what you believe. Because
>I'm sure there are plenty of people here who either think you're
>completely delusional and will ask you for your alien Polaroids,
>or on the other end of the spectrum those who will accept every
>word without question and what they don't hear from you they'll
>make up on their own. I don't want to get into that church
>meeting.

<lol>There is a 'third' group that you fail to mention that is
not supposed to be swayed by any form of 'belief'... researchers.

Budd Hopkins did a pretty thorough and comprehensive job of
investigating me and my reports over a period of years. I've had
the chance to speak with, and get to know, Dave Jacobs who also
happens to do a bang-up job of checking out these reports. It
doesn't always break down into "believers/non-believers."

That "believer/non-believer" stuff is a simplistic and kind of
biased way to view things. It puts the whole set of reported
phenomena on a level that makes it all easy to dismiss. It is in
fact a very condescending view to maintain. It does not
acknowledge the possibility of an 'objective' phenomenon. Or,
objective people.

>But from what I understand, even with a physical abduction,
>there is usually a strong cognitive component involved.

There is a "strong cognitive component" at work at all times in
daily life. The intensity of an experience or the level of
concentration may have an effect on long-term memory (as in the
case of war veterans who can recall minutia about traumatic
events decades past) or perception as in two witnesses seeing
the same thing but observing/registering different details
depending on filters, life-experience and predilection. But the
mechanisms/means of cognition is _always_ a factor in any
experienced event.

More to the point are questions about the physical reality of
the reported event. Was it an "event" at all. But questioning
whether cognition is a factor is a given -as with any other
traumatic experience(s). You need to bone up on all the
thoughtsa and theories regarding memory of trauma or traumatic
events. That study applies and has more validity to the reports
of abductees than just about any other aspect of memory.

>How does one drive along and "suddenly" find themselves isolated?

Budd used to discuss (anonymously, without revealing names) the
details of a great many of the cases he had investigated. I
can't begin to tell you the encyclopedia of cases and details
that he shared with me over a six year long period of close
contact with him. As anyone who knows him will testify... Budd
_loves_ to talk! As a result I was privy to a lot of details
that many are never exposed to. One such set of details in the
abduction reports has to do with this physical displacement
business. 'Finding oneself in the wrong place' or 'not the place
that one was headed to originally'.

This feature of many abduction reports implies many things, not
the least of which is 'mind-control.' Examples: (The examples
I'm about to give are from actual cases/reports.)

A lady is on her way home in her car. She spots a very bright
light in the sky just in front of her automobile. As she is
driving her eyes are constantly darting back and forth from the
unusual aerial object to the road in front of her. Quite
suddenly she finds herself in the parking lot of a local church
(car parked - engine off) and two hours have passed/disappeared.
She had no recollection of how she got there.

She was very badly shaken, disorientated and had no recall at
all about driving her car into this parking lot. Much less
memory of where she had been the preceding two hours. Note the
sequence of events: out driving... sees UFO... finds herself
someplace she did not intend to be and with two hours of missing
time to explain.

Just a side note, under hypnosis the lady regurgitated an
elaborate abduction event.

Next: Father and son driving cross country together. They spot
a UFO and notice that it is pacing the vehicle they are in. It is
night, they are alone on the road, and they both become frightened
at this UFO that is following them. The very next recollection they
have is of finding themselves on a road many miles away from
the one they were on (and again) with hours of missing time.

Note the pattern: UFO - displacement - missing time.  In this
case the father recalled consciously portions of the
abduction/contact event while the son did not. Both reports
agree in substantive detail however.

I can go on for pages about people who are heading in one
direction suddenly find themselves on isolated roads or areas
and they cannot explain 'how' they got there. What sets this
kind of thing apart from the mundane, (ie; somebody wasn't
paying attention and simply got lost) is the common component of
the presence of a UFO (usually in close proximity) the fact that
the UFO seems 'focused' on the witnesses, geographic
displacement and missing time. Over and over this same scenario
has played itself out.

The most recent incident I can recall was reported right here on
this List. A gentleman who was out fishing in his boat suddenly
finds himself in waters that required his boat traveling over
dry land in order to get there. GPS records showed exactly that!
That the boat 'floated' I presume over a land mass and the boat
ended up in another bay altogether. There was a UFO sighting and
missing time involved. It is the combination of those three
components, UFOs, physical displacement and missing time that
make the incidents 'anomalous.' In the case of the 'flying boat'
we even have hard GPS data!

That's 'how' it happens, Tim. What is causing it or what other
phenomena may come into play... who knows? What I do know is, it
usually gets reproted in conjunction with an UFO abduction.

>Or
>simply not be able to pull a trigger on a shotgun? That's
>indication of a strong cognitive/perceptual component.

It is also an indiction of powerful mind-control! Mind-control
is another 'component' of many abduction reports. You can't
selectively single out the cognitive component as culpable, you
need to consider all possibilities. If you study the reports
'mind-control' by the UFO occupants of the subjects comes up in
the reports time and again. It cannot be ignored as a valid
explanation for why people cannot 'pull the trigger' on a
shotgun say, or kick one of those puny Grey things.

In fact, because of physical differences (a Grey wouldn't stand
a chance in Hell against a human in a fist fight) mind control
may very well be an absolute necessity for them in order to
kidnap and control their victims/subjects/

The old
>"high strangeness" aspect. There's going to be some ambiguity
>about the "reality" of your experience because of your
>perception of it. What you perceive with your senses (very
>unreliable, think of a magic act), and your memory (also
>extremely unreliable).

Say who? Listen, I'm sorry. I've been over all of this several
times in the past on this List with Peter Brookesmith and
others. Please refer to the UpDates archive if you care to learn
of my views on the absurd comments you just made. Honest, it's
not laziness, it's just that I've already been over this ground
several times before. Nothing personal. I just don't much feel
like rehashing all that stuff.

Suffice it to say that I strongly disagree with your rather
dim view of the value of the cognitive senses.

>You say it doesn't matter if you kick and
>scream, etc., but how can an abductee really be sure they're
>doing all of that?

You're talking to someone who has a lot of conscious
recollection of these events. I can't answer for others but I
can tell you how I reacted in certain instances and how
effective (or not) it was.

>The common picture of aliens make them look
>pretty spindly. A good, solid boot to the head ought to at least
>slow them down.

Hey, if you ever get the chance, give it a try and then get back
to me and tell me how 'successful' your attempt to assault one
of beings was.  <lol>

>And what if a prayer or talisman has been
>effective in warding off a physical abduction?

Show me where it has, and we'll go from there.

>All I'm suggesting is that in any abduction scenario, it might
>be advantageous to have some kind of clear mental focal point,
>if for no other reason than to look for vulnerabilities to
>exploit in self-defense.

Have you ever been in a life-threatening situation? How 'focued'
were you at the time eh?

>I don't
>have an answer. I'm just trying to come up with reasonable
>questions.

That's all well and good as long as you keep an open mind to the
very real possibility that some of us may be accurately
recalling and reporting actual events.

Regards,

John Velez, Abductee