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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2003 > Dec > Dec 15

Re: Asking Jesus For Intervention Stops Abductions

From: Tim Shell <tshell@vcmails.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:01:01 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:58:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Asking Jesus For Intervention Stops Abductions


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:07:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: Asking Jesus For Intervention Stops Abductions

>That "believer/non-believer" stuff is a simplistic and kind of
>biased way to view things. It puts the whole set of reported
>phenomena on a level that makes it all easy to dismiss. It is in
>fact a very condescending view to maintain. It does not
>acknowledge the possibility of an 'objective' phenomenon. Or,
>objective people.

I can see where you might get defensive and maybe read a lot
into what I'm saying, but you're barking up the wrong tree here.
Like I said, I'm perfectly willing to accept for the moment that
these things are happening in an objective physical reality. You
say it's happening... Hey, that's good enough for me because I
don't want to argue that particular point. I only mention the
"believers/non-believers" as illustrative of what I am not. I am
not in either camp, and would prefer not to be lumped into
either category, particularly by someone whose word I'm
accepting.

>More to the point are questions about the physical reality of
>the reported event. Was it an "event" at all. But questioning
>whether cognition is a factor is a given -as with any other
>traumatic experience(s). You need to bone up on all the
>thoughtsa and theories regarding memory of trauma or traumatic
>events. That study applies and has more validity to the reports
>of abductees than just about any other aspect of memory.

Like I said, I don't care about the physical reality of the
event. And as for my knowledge of the effect of trauma on
memory, I feel that I have a good working knowledge of it. I
also have a relatively solid knowledge of hypnosis and other
forms of memory manipulation, and there's a lot of

>One such set of details in the
>abduction reports has to do with this physical displacement
>business. 'Finding oneself in the wrong place' or 'not the place
>that one was headed to originally'.

>This feature of many abduction reports implies many things, not
>the least of which is 'mind-control.' Examples: (The examples
>I'm about to give are from actual cases/reports.)

Of course. There are anecdotal accounts of temporal and spatial
shifts. People suddenly finding themselves in towns or on roads
that later can't be found. Hey, even sci-fi author Philip K.
Dick talks about it in his Exegisis, finding himself in early
Christian Rome as a result of seeing the necklace of a girl
delivering a pizza. And we have ghost stories. Morphic
constructs shifting through time.

But the best theory I've heard for these sorts of things involve
some kind of extraordinary perceptual shift, again, mind-
centered.

>It is also an indiction of powerful mind-control! Mind-control
>is another 'component' of many abduction reports. You can't
>selectively single out the cognitive component as culpable, you
>need to consider all possibilities. If you study the reports
>'mind-control' by the UFO occupants of the subjects comes up in
>the reports time and again. It cannot be ignored as a valid
>explanation for why people cannot 'pull the trigger' on a
>shotgun say, or kick one of those puny Grey things.

>Suffice it to say that I strongly disagree with your rather
>dim view of the value of the cognitive senses.

On the contrary. I have a suspicion that given the proper very
rare and as yet unmeasurable circumstances, the power of an
observer in the classic quantum mechanical sense can help bring
form to an entire physical universe. I would hardly call that a
dim view. In fact, it's one of the reasons why prayers or
talismans could be valuable in limiting the effects of mind
control.

>Hey, if you ever get the chance, give it a try and then get back
>to me and tell me how 'successful' your attempt to assault one
>of beings was. <lol>

I would love to. But apparently aliens aren't interested in me.
Any time I've ever had night terrors I recognized them as such.
But the next time you cross paths with these damned things, you
just send them my way. Because of the connection we have through
our interaction here, they should be able to find me if they
want. I'll be waiting. Then we'll see.

>Have you ever been in a life-threatening situation? How 'focued'
>were you at the time eh?

I found myself to be extremely focused. If I wasn't, it's
possible I wouldn't have survived.

>That's all well and good as long as you keep an open mind to the
>very real possibility that some of us may be accurately
>recalling and reporting actual events.

Look here. Look. Concentrate. Understand what I'm saying here. I
don't care if you're reporting an actual event or not. I'm not
interested in trying to prove or disprove any of that. You say
you've been abducted by aliens (or whatever they are) when
you've had compete control of your perceptions and mental
processes? Fine! How's that? It doesn't matter to me whether
it's true or not. It's immaterial, and I don't even want to hear
your proof. All I'm asking is whether or not having a talisman
might be helpful in the situation. You apparently think not.
Okay. Just asking.

Hey, I'm willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt
because the world's a weird place and I know that if there's a
controversy somewhere, it's because there is evidence to be
found on both sides. But it's a two-way street. My mind is open
as long as nobody tries to close it from the outside. I'm
naturally very reactive and it appears that you are, too. I
prefer to take the middle ground, but I'll be right there with
all the points to show it's true, or I'll turn around and nail
it dead as complete bullcrap. Because if ever the Devil had an
advocate, it's me.