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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > May > May 5

Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction

From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 16:35:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 13:17:23 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction


>From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 04:45:32 EDT
>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:13:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction
>>Fear

>>>From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:01:07 EDT
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction
>>>Fear

>>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:45:45 +0200
>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction
>>>>Fear

>>>I don't think the Hill case was that novel or out of the
>>>ordinary in 1961. It has been argued that abductions were
>>>only noted in obscure UFO magazines unavailable to the
>>>Hills, yet if we look at the investigation of their case,
>>>they had long discussions with UFO experts within weeks of
>>>their encounter experience. From them they would have
>>>picked up plenty of information about current UFO
>>>research and theories.

>>No, they wouldn't have. That material just wasn't available.
>>You simply don't know what you're talking about. Until you
>>do, a wise course of action, it seems to me, would be to
>>choose to engage only in those disucssions in which you
>>have something to contribute.

>Although the Hill case is the most important in ufology it is
>significant that the only major account of it is by a popular
>journalist and author. Where are the detailed investigations
>and reports by the likes of Keyhoe, Hynek or Clark?

Who decided that the Hill case "is the most important ufology?"
I suppose Nigel Watson did in order to set up his straw-man
argument that follows.

>>>It should also be noted that throughout the 1950s the
>>>contactee literature and science fiction on TV and in
>>>films often contained alien encounters and abductions.

>What has Arnold and pre-SF magazines got to do with the Hill
>case? Their encounter was in 1961, there had already been a
>decade of contactee literature, UFO reports in the newspapers
>and many SF films about alien invasions and abduction.

Perhaps Nigel Watson can list for us the "many" SF films about
alien abductions. In particular, I would appreciate him listing
the films with similarity of details to the Hill abduction, such
as missing time, the described medical prodedures, amnesia, etc.

>>And by the way, taking abductions off the table, where is the
>>evidence that persons who are not emotionally disturbed are
>>subject to vivid science-fiction fantasies which they are
>>deluded into believing really happened? If this is a
>>recognized category of nonpathological mental malfunction
>>and exists outside the abduction arena, it has escaped me.
>>I've never heard of it, and I suspect nobody else has, either.

>>To refine the point, logic tells us that if mentally well
>>persons can undergo vivid, lifelike experiences which are
>>actually just reruns of SF stories, that ought to be easily
>>documentable. The most susceptible would be hard-core SF fans,
>>those who spend a portion of every day of their waking lives
>>reading, writing, viewing, or thinking about SF (not a
>>description of the Hills, of course). Is there any evidence in
>>the clinical literature that SF enthusiasts who are not
>>mentally ill fall victim to extraordinary SF-based
>>hallucinations
>>which they confuse with event-level experience? Didn't think
>>so.

>Philip K. Dick for one.

Case closed. Therefore the Hills must have suffered SF-based
hallucinations which they confused with real events.

>Being rude and pompous is no replacement for reasoned
>argument.

Where's the reasoned argument from Nigel Watson? All I see are
the usual, hand-waving, untestable arguments that the Hills
_must_ have been influenced by the SF literature/movies and
somehow confabulated the whole thing.

>On a more important and final point where is the objective,
>empirical evidence for the Hill abduction?

Where's the objective, empirical evidence that it didn't happen?

There are actually details in the Hill account plus some
physical evidence that are rather difficult to explain away as
mere fantasy, whether SF-induced or otherwise.

Pease Air Force Base did pick up a UFO at the same time and
location that the Hills claimed. There were unexplained bright
spots on the trunk of the car that affected a compass. Both the
Hills' watches stopped running after the experience. Barney Hill
had an unexplained circle of warts in his groin area where under
hypnosis he remembered them carrying out some sort of medical
procedure.

Betty Hill described a medical procedure, a "pregnancy test"
that sounds remarkably similar to modern-day amniocentesis.
Skeptics correctly point out that amniocentesis predated the
Hill case, but fail to note the procedure was experimental and
used only by a few medical researchers. It did not become a
commonplace obstetrical procedure until years after the Hill
case.

Another suggestion is that the procedure wasn't amniocentesis
but egg extraction, now commonly done for in vitro
fertilization, but totally without precedent back in 1961.

Now how many Sci-Fi films or stories depicted amniocentesis or
in vitro fertilization procedures before 1961? Perhaps Nigel
Watson can list these as well.

Or maybe we are supposed to believe that Betty Hill, in addition
to being a malleable SF fanatic, was also plugged into the
esoteric medical research literature of the time and thus
incorporated amniocentesis into her abduction fantasy. Yes, I
suppose it is possible, but how likely is it?

There is also, of course, the controversal Hill "star map,"
perhaps the most complete treatment of which was in a special
1976 edition of Astronomy magazine. Although skeptics like Carl
Sagan retorted that the pattern match to our local stellar
neighborhood with the Zeta Reticuli dual star system being the
home base was more fanciful than real, David Saunders responded
that Sagan's argument was qualitative, when it should have been
quantitative. Saunders, an expert statistician who had been on
the Condon commission, then gave statistical argument that the
odds of a match between the Hill map and the local neighborhood
of sun-like stars was only one in a thousand or less of
happening by chance.

Astronomy student Michael Peck then did another statistical
analysis of correlation coefficients between X and Y coordinates
of the star map and the true Zeta Reticuli-centered
neighborhood. Peck got correlation coefficents greater than 0.9
for both X and Y coordinates. Perfect correlation would have
been 1.0.

Randomly drawn dots would be expected to have correlation
coefficients near 0. Just to check this, Peck did sample runs
with such random dots and got X and Y correlation coefficents
less than 0.1, as expected.

Peck concluded that the degree of resemblance between the two
maps was statistically very high. To emphasize the point, he
also calculated the probability that 15 random dots (the Hill
map had 15 stars on it besides the Sun) would create an equal
level of correlation strictly by chance. The number he got was
only one in 10^15, about one trillion times less probable than
Saunders statistical estimate.

There are a number of interesting details of the Hill map that
also strongly suggest that the similarity would not be a chance
event. Sun-like stars connected by lines, supposedly
representing "trade routes" or exploration routes, lie
practically in a plane, and would be the most efficient way to
explore the local neighborhood of Sun-like stars. The Zeta
Reticuli system, supposedly the base of the star pattern, is
extremely rare, a pair of stars almost exactly like the sun
separated by a scant 0.15 light years. As Stan Friedman and
others have pointed out, it is not hard to imagine how the
closeness of the two stars would act as a tremendous incentive
to a civilization arising from one of the stars to develop
interstellar travel.

The Zeta Reticuli pair are also older stars than our Sun by
approximately a billion years or more, at least consistent with
an older, more advanced civilization having evolved there and
then branched out.

The point is the Hill map does constitute "objective, empirical
evidence" that can be analyzed scientifically. While the map
does not definitively prove the Hill abduction occurred, as one
section of the Astronomy magazine noted, "not everything can be
written off as coincidence or hallucination." Not even the
skeptics in the Astronomy magazine issue suggested that the Hill
map was inspired by Betty Hill watching Sci Fi movies.


David Rudiak




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