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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > May > May 22

Re: Mexican Fleet Prompts Release Of Kaufman Texas

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 17:49:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 15:04:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexican Fleet Prompts Release Of Kaufman Texas

>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 05:57:17 +0000
>Subject: Re: Mexican Fleet Prompts Release Of Kaufman Texas Video

>>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 18:17:17 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Mexican Fleet Prompts Release Of Kaufman Texas Video

>>>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:30:58 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Mexican Fleet Prompts Release Of Kaufman Texas Video


>>>Pelicans? You need to make your own study and evaluation of
>>>this video, Martin, and draw your own conclusions. However if
>>>you haven't seen the Mexican UFO fleets video collection and
>>>have not made any research on the extensive Mexican database on
>>>this phenomena it's clear you simply don't understand what I'm
>>>talking about.

>>Oh dear Santiago

>>What an utterly bankrupt response! Of course I don't know what
>>you're talking about because you said nothing. That is why I
>>asked you to elaborate. And now, what is anyone to infer from
>>your vacant and evasive reply, but that you have absolutely
>>nothing to say?

>>Your reflex 'pelicanist' jibe is pathetic and so far of the mark
>>it is laughable, as a number of "real" so-called pelicanists
>>with whom I have had very lively and _very_detailed_ arguments
>>over cases that I regard as significant would tell you.

>>It seems to me that you have no understanding of the need to
>>address basic physical-optical and geometrical-optical questions
>>in such a case, and if you wished to send out a signal to anyone
>>with sense that your case for these "global UFO fleets" is empty
>>of science or sense then you could do no better than this.

>Then for you these are just birds - pelicans or whatever - so I
>guess this case is closed for you right? Fine!! Keep it that


No it isn't fine at all. It's depressing and infuriating and
rather sad. All you had to do was explain the "characteristics
and parameters" of the Kaufman video that you had studied, as I
asked. You didn't even need to give us any figures if you didn't
want to go into details - you could have just said, "Yes we have
determined the FOV of the camera lens, the different zooms
applied, the focal distance, the distance to the tree branch,
the individual and collective angular rates of the objects,
their angular sizes, the azimuth and elevation of the group in
relation to the sun , whatever, and we conclude that a flock of
brightly reflective white birds is very unlikely." That would
have piqued my interest no end. Instead we got petulance and

Let me explain to you what it means for a case to be "closed" in
the sense you imply - it means someone has made up their mind
because of a preconceived idea and blindly resists persuasion,
often by refusing to confront evidence out in the open. This is
"pelicanism" I suppose, and it seems to me from your posts that
it is closer to what you are doing than to what I am doing. I
_think_ (and note that I am bravely thinking for myself here, as
wisely recommended by John Velez, and) that the Kaufman video
looks a lot like a flight of birds, a not unnatural first
impression since the photographer himself thought so too. But I
am _inviting persuasion_ to the contrary. If this strikes you as
unreasonable then I confess there is simply no hope of us ever
communicating, which I concede is unlikely to concern you at all.

Martin Shough

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