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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > May > May 31

Re: Bob Lazar Returns - Sort Of - Salla

From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul>
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 14:04:25 -1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 08:28:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Bob Lazar Returns - Sort Of - Salla

>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 13:22:11 -0400
>Subject: Bob Lazar Returns - Sort Of

>I noticed that George Knapp and the I-Team have brought back Bob
>Lazar - see:



>Years ago, I subscribed to The Southwestern Oil and Gas News.
>The editor was and expert in oil and gas (and most other kind
>of) scams. He loved to quote from court documents in which
>swindlers revealed their techniques.

>Two themes that ran through many of these scams were huge
>audacious claims which on the face were just this side of absurd
>and the complete lack of respect for the poor "mark." In some
>cases the con-men would name their companies (or divisions of
>larger corporations) with such give always like REKCUS, Inc. It
>didn't matter to large numbers of people who were easily taken
>in and sent thousands of dollars to promoters of the schemes
>which were based on the most flimsy evidence.

Aloha Jan,

I'm really amused at how UFO veteran researchers are so
concerned about guarding the 'unitiated' from the danger posed
by the scamster, fraud, charlatan, inveterate liar,
disinformationist, etc. Basically the UFO world is filled either
by honest witnesses/government employees who can be trusted; and
scamsters, etc., wanting to deceive a gullible public. The
litmus test for deciding which of the categories someone falls
into lies in providing documentation and hard evidence. If
there's not sufficient documentation, then the individual is a
liar. If there' no hard evidence, then its a tall tale, etc. If
the person's testimony conflicts in a some way with available
documentation, then they are dismissed as a fraud, etc. I think
this simple bipolar UFO world constructed by UFO veterans is way
off the mark. It's a children's fable designed to frighten than
to enlighten. People's motivations, experiences and testimonies
are far more complex. There's no easy way to deal with people's
testimony from deep black projects where there's no
documentation and hard evidence but it can be done if there's a
desire to do so. So far, I've found no real desire by veteran
UFO researchers to deal with whistleblowers in a serious way.
It's just lot's of dismissive statements and ridicule. In my
view, dealing seriously with whistleblowers from classified
projects is a bit too intimidating for veteran researchers.


>"Now the large amount of evidence points to the probability that
>Lazar is telling the truth." Dozen of websites start off with
>something similar to this statement.

>Well, let's read some of these wonderful things that Lazar was
>doing. Let's see he was building his own gravity amplifier, but,
>but, later on he says he can't remember the gravity wave
>frequency or even if it was in kilohertz, megahertz or
>gigahertz. This is so precious!! George and the I-Team didn't
>pick up on this!


Yes, it's true that in the interview Lazar's failed to remember
the frequency of the gravity wave amplifier. He only could
recall it was an odd frequency. He can be accused of having a
poor memory which is very human. Let's all remember that Lazar
claimed to work in a classified S4 project, not to possessing
photographic memory.

>"August 1990, George Knapp, the reporter that first broke the
>story, uncovered a W2 for Robert Lazar. This slip represents
>payments, after deductions, for five days, (non-consecutive)
>working at the S4 base. Lazar started at the end of December
>1988. And had only been at the base five times before the new

>"Lazar noted that he had 'Majestic' clearance.

>"This clearance level was 48 levels above "Q" clearance."

As is now widely accepted, Lazar worked at the Meson Particle
Acclerator Facility while at Los Alamos where he had a Q
clearance which is a standard security clearance for those
working in government laboratories such as Los Alamos, Sandia,
etc. Q clearance is required for contracters such as Kirk Meyers
that have specific tasks at places such as Los Alamos. People
typically with a minimum of a Bachelor's degrees routinely apply
for Q clearance to work in government/corporate laboratories so
it's not that difficult to get. See the following job desciption
from Bechtel Nevada:


Lazar's alleged Majestic clearance refers to a compartmented
program he worked on while at S-4. The various projects at S-4
have a security clearance that is described as being rated
higher than the Manhatten Project. However, it's more correct to
describe these as being compartmentalized in a way that ensures
that only those with the right security clearance AND a clear
"need to know" have access. So Lazar could work on the
propulsion system since he had Majestic Clearance, but could not
work on the navigation system of the ETV since he didn't have a
'need to know'.

>I guess in the latest reports on Lazar George and the I-Team
>"forgot" about Lazar's W-2. Or for a ufoological more
>acceptable term he "disremembered" Lazar's W-2.

>(Now I've received E-mails from people who have said they have
>"researched" UFOs for more than five or ten years. They haven't
>read Ruppelt or the UFO Evidence, but they can tell you about
>Lazar.) So recently, I have been told all about this wonderful
>document. See (it take a little time to load up):

>Department of Naval Intelligence. Isn't that just precious?!
>Since it is the Office of Naval Intelligence although the
>Canadians did (do?) have a Department of Naval Intelligence. As
>an Assistant Adjutant in the Army, activities within the Army do
>not issue W-2s to civilians. The Office of Civilian Personnel
>does. The same for the Navy.

Now this may be standard procedure for civilian employees
working for different branches of the military, but tells us
very little about how civilians contracted to work for Majestic
clearance projects are paid. If the Navy has civilians
contracted to work on projects requiring Majestic clearance,
they would very likely create an entity that can't be traced
such as the 'Department of Naval Intelligence' but is physically
present on a Naval facility. In one of the URLs you sent, it
mentions that "John Andrews, plastic kit division manager of the
Testor Corporation, found out that the U.S. Postal Service sends
mail with the zip code NIC-01, the code on Lazar's W-2 form, to
Naval Intelligence command in Maryland." So while there may not
be a Dept of Naval Intelligence, the zip code ensures that any
correspondence gets to the right place. Do you really expect
transparency when it comes to documentation of employment for
civilians working on Majestic level military projects? I think
confirming the zip code on the W-2 is about as far as one will
get, but as always, veteran UFO researchers will point out no
such entity as the Department of Naval Intelligence exists so
Lazar's W-2 is a fake! Come on, let's be realistic here!

>But now I am going to let you in on something which is more
>precious and rarer than Element 115. The absolute and total

Ok, so now we have the ridicule factor about to be used. Why is
it that veteran UFO researchers can't appreciate the seriousness
of Lazar's claims and try to depict anyone defending him as
taken in by a huckster. George Knapp's investigations have
provided ample evidence to support Lazar's testimony. For
example, Lazar's claims regarding element 115 are turning out to
be very consistent with the latest scientific advances in
stellar astronomy. The critique of Dr David Morgan that Stan
distributed to the forum had an important deficiency in it as I
pointed out in my short article: http://www.exopolitics.org/Exo-
Comment-31.htm . Dr Morgan dismissed the idea that metals
heavier than iron could be formed in stable stars, yet I was
able to quickly point out to Stan and others that Dr Morgan is
wrong. Yet to date, no one has acknowledged this. Metals heavier
than iron can be formed in stars and this gives some
plausibility to Lazar's claims concerning the formation of 115
in stars.

>I had a 99 level clearance above "Q." The absolute top, top
>clearance. And I know there are no such things as 29, 38, 48,
>51 and 67 levels above "Q." The 29th level was deleted on 15
>Oct 1967, and the 38th shortly thereafter. The 48th, 51st, and
>67th were never filled and are gaps in the clearance level

>The 87th level has to do exclusively with the recovery of a UFO
>from the American sector of the DMZ in Korea. The cover story
>for this operation was the pull back and deactivation of the 7th
>Infantry Division. These things are unbelievably complicated
>and difficult, and it takes thousands of people with a wide
>spectrum of specialities to engage in such operations.

>UFO operations are not run by the military, CIA, NSA NRO or any
>of these other military or "intelligence" type agencies. Gad!
>The main UFO investigations and counter actions agency is the
>Office of Economic Subversion (OES), an apparently small office
>within the Department of.... It isn't small; it is huge with
>resources that are unreal. Things like Area 51, Wright Field,
>etc., etc. are only involved on the very edge of the
>investigations and counter actions. Most fancy modern facilities
>are decoy areas and useless. Most OES facilities look like old
>warehouse and are located in places like Camden, New Jersey (not
>a real location).

>Enough, and that's the real truth, every word of it.

While you're obviously not persuaded by evidence supporting
Lazar's testimony, I'm glad that you've finally unmasked the
Office of Economic Subversion. I believe it's run out of Pine
Gap Australia where the elite are waiting for a big asteroid to
wipe out everything on the planet, apart from the interior of
Australia. If you watch the flight patterns of Kookaburras
that's the clue to where the OES is located.

Michael Salla

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