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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > May > May 31

Re: National Or Cultural Impacts On UFO Research -

From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul>
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 21:19:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 08:32:26 -0400
Subject: Re: National Or Cultural Impacts On UFO Research -

>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 14:14:33 +0100 (BST)
>Subject: Re: National Or Cultural Impacts On UFO Research

>>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 20:16:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: National Or Cultural Impacts On UFO Research


>>Perhaps it is more of a "mixed bag" or "all of the above".
>>Charlatans and scholars exist in all cultures. Truth and lies
>>are translated in all languages. Every culture exhibits media
>>and personal bias; some obvious, some subtle. Ultimately, it
>>all boils down to the individual and how willing each person >
>is to become an informed consumer of information. Each
>>citizen of every country must ask themselves, in all honesty,
>>do they want to believe or do they want the truth.


>An excellent analysis Amy, but I found myself muttering, after
>reading the above paragraph, "So what?"

>I acknowledge there was no trace of censure or judgement in your
>observations and I'm not accusing you of such, but I would have
>been grateful if you had taken your analysis further and
>explained why so many on both sides of the "believing" fence
>feel a religious zeal in trying to correct the beliefs of those
>they feel are mistaken. To me, this is the height of supreme
>arrogance - as if one can straighten out the misguided philosphy
>of those perceived to be wrong and set them on the road to
>righteousness, as laid down by "me" of course. We should leave
>these people, from whatever perspective, alone. If we consider
>them ignorant, then leave them alone in their ignorance. They
>are happy where they are and let's face it, who really is to say
>they are wrong?

Why do people feel the need to promote their belief systems to
others? That's a good question and one I have pondered many

After reading your question to my 20 year old daughter (going on
80), I asked her why she thought people felt such a need to
convince others their way of thinking is right and any other way
of thinking is wrong (she was on the debate team in high school
and spends much of her waking hours debating everything under
the sun). To which she replied, "Because it makes it more true.
The more that believe the way you do, the more right you feel.
If less people share your beliefs, you feel afraid you might be
wrong and begin to question your beliefs. When you question your
beliefs, you have to search harder for the truth. It's easier to
get others to agree with your way of thinking than it is to
search for the truth and maybe change the way you think. When
others agree with your point of view it makes you feel special."

I doubt there are any easy or quick answers to this question
because the need to believe is different from person to person.
From a psychosocial point of view, which is like zooming out
from individual to group behaviors, there are similar patterns
or traits that appear to correlate with belief needs observed in
religions, cults as well as sociopolitical arenas across all
cultures. Far beyond the UFO community, the need to believe and
convert others appears to be an inherent aspect of human nature.
So much so, it is one characteristic used by science to
distinguish humans from animals.

In reference to the need to convert others to one's way of
thinking, this too is more complex than we have time or space to
cover in this or subsequent posts. But let me ask you this, if
people stopped debating issues, what would we learn? What would
the world be like today if Hitler was allowed to continue
promoting his belief that all Jews should be exterminated?
Should he have just been left alone in his ignorance (or
stupidity) and allowed to carry on with his philosophies? If he
was happy, why interfere? What about the Heaven's Gate cult (I
studied this group and have an extensive file on them including
original video footage I took with their permission)? Your
perspective of leaving them alone in their ignorance appears to
have been exactly what happened... with disastrous consequences.

At what point do we call it ignorance (lack of knowledge) or
stupidity (lack of intelligence)? Ignorance is merely a lack of
knowledge or being uninformed while stupidity is unable or
unwilling to recognize information regardless of the content.
People who believe out of ignorance merely lack adequate and
valid information. People who continue to believe despite the
evidence/information are either incapable or unwilling to use
logic and reason. People who believe something due to lack of
information often recognize truth when they finally see it.
Those unable or unwilling to change their beliefs remain myopic
and conflicted because, subconsciously, they know truth is just
beyond their grasp.

Do you believe something because it's true or is it true because
you believe it?

If you were wrong in your beliefs but happy, would you prefer to
be left alone or would you still want the truth?

>The real giveaways for me are the constant jibes, from both
>sides. John's closing comment about reports, "not telling
>ufologists what they want to hear" speaks volumes. I have no
>idea if there was a "side" to James Smith's original post but it
>struck me as a rather lame attempt to show that he was more open
>minded than he is accused of being.

The hardest part of searching for valid information on this or
any list, is sorting the bull from the bullshi#. With all the
chest thumping, snorting and vocalizations, it sometimes seems
more like a jungle than a discussion forum (IMO). I'm not sure
if this is due to an overabundance of testosterone or a lack of
adequate progesterone but the smell of piss and antlers has
reduced many amazing discussions to a substance not unlike used
kitty litter (UFO community = 56% men, 44% women, Brenda
Denzler, The Lure Of The Edge, University of California Press,
2001). What I don't understand is why some people are allowed to
destroy healthy and productive discussions with their inane
input while others would be swiftly banned for similar
transgressions. There are those who maintain the status quo and
those who challenge - and never clear which side is which. I
often wonder if this is due to natural selection or planned
erranthood. ;>

>And somewhat belatedly, I would agree with John Velez's
>orgiginal accusation levelled at Kyle King that there is an
>element of racism in much of North America's responses to south
>of the border UFO reports, and I detect the same strand in James
>Smith's comments too. It is something that our South American
>colleagues seem to put up with, with remarkable patience, but I
>guess they're used to it.

I disagree, Stuart. Instead of listening to Mr. King and
discussing the issues at hand, he was attacked, berated and
accused of racism. Instead of saying, "Mmmmm, perhaps we should
study this." the usual distractions and finger pointing ensued.
I don't care where one is from, the burden of proof is on those
making the original claims. The issue remains under

>And perhaps Amy, you might turn your spotlight on to the other
>side, towards those who are perceived to be the models of common
>sense in Ufological matters. What is their pathology? And go on,
>be a devil, include yourself as well.

Mmmmm, perhaps we should study this.

A. Hebert

"Follow the white rabbit..."

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