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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Apr > Apr 1

Re: Defending The Indefensible - Good

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 08:20:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 08:20:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Defending The Indefensible - Good

>>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:59:52 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Defending The Indefensible

>>>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 18:22:07 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Defending The Indefensible

>>>>From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:06:12 +0100
>>>>Subject: Re: Defending The Indefensible

How interesting that this little debate that I began with some
outrageously bold statements has finally come full circle. It
has reached a point where Martin is actually arguing my own
assertions! Granted, the semantics are different, but he is
confirming what I was saying about the preconcieved notions of
much of our culturally accepted and cherished scientific

I.E. :

>>As I understand it, Martin is acknowledging that scientists, as
>>individual human beings, may have unjustified a priori

>I'm not weakly acknowledging it, I'm strongly claiming it. The
>justified ones will be self-justified by their results, the
>unjustified ones will sometimes be specifically rejected but
>more generally their status and even their existence will be
>simply unknown.

>>but that science as a collective process will always
>>find these out and test them. I agree that sometimes this will

>Not always find them out and test them, no. But nobody knows of
>any other way to find the justified ones than to make them into
>coherent theories, where possible, and test them to see what
>happens. The fact that this leaves an unknown number of
>incoherent and even unrecognised assumptions embedded in all our
>thinking, individually and culturally, presumably going at least
>as deep in our natures as anything that we can recognise as
>"thought" and probably deeper, is something we all just have to
>put up with.

>Which among even those untested prejudices we _can_ all detect
>within ourselves from time to time are skewing our thoughts in a
>potentially useful way, and which not? Some of them are surely
>scientifically useful if only we knew how to frame them
>properly, but we don't, and we are not helped by some people
>(picking up here your "having cakes and eating them") who will
>happily cherry-pick scientific results and opinions as authority
>for their "cool" prejudices whilst eagerly decrying science and
>rationality in the same breath. Most of us can't even tie our
>shoes objectively.

Oh forsooth! To be casually brushed off in such an impertitnent
manner! Well, I will gladly become the rhetorical whipping boy
if it means recogntion of the fact that science is not the
intellectual balwark and open minded love-fest that Martin
imagines it to be.

Cathy Reason (the voice of Reason?) has taken my side, in a
manner of speaking. For this I thank her. I, obviously, do not
share in their intellectual/academic pursuits. So, I have
remained silent while this debate has gone on. I let the smart
people do the talking here.

But Martin will, perhaps, (okay, maybe not) be surprised to know
that I did not come to my point of view by cherry-picking
scientific data to buttress my hare-brained ideas. No! I came to
my hare-brained ideas legitimately, through the study of
(shudder!) metaphysics!

Oh my! Now I have went and done it! The cat is out of the bag! I
have single-handedly delegitimized myself by admitting that I am
just another one of those airy-fairy nutbags!

Oh, the shame.

But this shameful revelation brings me directly to my original
point: That quantum physics are beginning to confirm what the
mystics have been saying all along. The universe is nothing,
more or less, than a huge complex continuum, subject to change
through the application of consciousness. This is the
metaphysical truth that science, in fits and starts, is only
beginning to acknowledge.

But what a fascinating and mind-blowing revelation this is!

>>This is the crux of our disagreement, I believe.

>And of our agreement apparently :-)

Yes indeed Martin! Truer words were never uttered here. Thank
you so much for an entertaining (if sometimes tedious) debate.
The world is a fascinating place, and it is made all the more
fascinating when previously conflicting philosophies are finally
shown to emerge from the same wellspring!

:-) Indeed!


Mike Good

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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