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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Apr > Apr 22

Re: The Roswell Incident - The True Story - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:34:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:14:26 -0400
Subject: Re: The Roswell Incident - The True Story - Rudiak

>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:05:00 EDT
>Subject: Re: The Roswell Incident - The True Story

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:11:15 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Roswell Incident - The True Story

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <bourdais.gildas.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:46:29 +0200
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Re: The Roswell Incident - The True Story

>>>I was not even discussing the testimonies on strange debris.
>>>My argument is much more simple: The Roswell base said in 1947
>>>that they had discovered a "flying disk". In 1994 and 1995, the
>>>Air Force explained that they had discovered in fact a Mogul
>>>balloon train, which included several radar targets mounted on
>>>balsa wood sticks. I repeat that not even Laurel and Hardy would
>>>have seen them as part of a flying saucer. It's that simple.

>>>In addition to that, Sheridan Cavitt, who had spent a day with
>>>Marcel at the debris field, denied, in his interview by Col.
>>>Weaver, having found such a Mogul balloon train.

If I may jump, rather late, into this discussion...

Cavitt's testimony indeed did _not_ support a Mogul balloon
crash, a small detail deliberately swept under the rug by the
debunkers, such as the Air Force.

Cavitt claimed only to find a tiny balloon crash no bigger than
his living room, or 20 feet across. So Cavitt was sticking with
the old 1947 weather balloon story, which didn't even agree with
Mack Brazel's coerced 200 yards across debris field.

When Weaver then prompted Cavitt about the all new and improved
giant Mogul balloon theory, complete with the alleged 'flower
tape' to explain Marcel's "hieroglyphics", Cavitt oddly didn't
take the hint. Instead he said he recalled no such hieroglyphics
or markings, and the only people mentioning them were people
writing flying saucer books.

So much for Cavitt allegedly describing a Mogul balloon crash
site. Nonetheless, Weaver spun Cavitt's testimony into being
completely consistent with the Mogul scenario and what was shown
in the Fort Worth photos. Well, of course it was consistent with
what was shown in Fort Worth, because what they displayed was a
single weather balloon and radar target, not Mogul balloon

>>>Another point: the launching of the Mogul 4 balloon train, the
>>>only one supposed to have radar targets, had been cancelled,
>>>as stated by Crary in his diary.

Cancelled on account of cloud cover, also supported by weather
records. Once the weather balloons are filled with helium,
however, they can't be reused, so they were then released, as
was the case with Flight 9 on July 3, which was also cancelled.
Neither Flight 4 or 9 is listed in the Mogul summary records,
which instead simply show gaps in the numbered flight sequence.
There was no "Flight 4."

Like "Flight 9", the filled but non-reusable balloons were
likely released as a cluster, as also recorded by Crary in his
diary for "Flight 4". Reusable equipment would be stripped off,
including any used for tracking, such as radiosondes or radar
reflectors. No tracking equals no flight even with balloon
cluster release, as there was no useful data to record. The
difference was Crary also noted that the Flight 4 balloon
cluster also carried a sonobuoy microphone. My guess was they
did this to simply test its reception of explosive charges
already set up, but didn't bother to track the balloon cluster.
Had they had actual tracking data, the flight would have been
recorded, since one of the prime purposes of these early flights
was to developed controlled altitude flight, which could only be
determined through careful tracking.

Mogul engineer Charles Moore claimed they DID track Flight 4,
but it is based on nothing but his alleged memory of the event
and conjecture (along with a lot of wishful thinking), with zero
documentation to back it up. Remember, if the balloon was
tracked, as Moore claims, it would have been recorded, and it
wasn't. This little conundrum is always swept under the rug by
Mogul proponents/Roswell debunkers.

No record = no tracking. And no tracking means no tracking
equipment, like radar targets. No radar targets means the whole
claim about radar targets being found at the Foster Ranch falls

Besides, the photos taken of the balloon equipment in Fort Worth
shows only a single radar target and probably a single balloon,
i.e., a regular rawin weather balloon, not a multi-target,
multi-balloon Mogul. Gen. Ramey always referred to it in the
singular, as did his weather officer Irving Newton, who even
today says it was a singular target and balloon that could have
come from anywhere. Even though Newton is a Roswell skeptic, he
has never been convinced that what he saw came form Mogul.

No Mogul equipment was ever reported recovered, such as the
constant altitude control equipment, radiosondes, or radar
targets, that would have been attached directly below the
balloon cluster. Gen. Ramey denied any equipment had been found.
Certainly none was displayed. If a balloon cluster and radar
targets had been found at the Foster ranch, then the other Mogul
equipment should have been found with it. It all magically
vanished, along with the hundreds of feet of balloon twine that
would have held it all together. Instead, Brazel in his coerced
Daily Record interview stated he found no strings or wires.
Where did it go if it was a Mogul balloon?

Need I also mention that Charles Moore, the whole lynchpin of
the Mogul Flight #4 theory, has also been caught red-handed
lying, hoaxing, and altering data (such as Mogul trajectory
maps) by Brad Sparks and myself. He completely falsified a
Flight 4 trajectory calculation based on wind records to try to
prove the alleged Flight 4 ended up at the Foster Ranch. A
proper calculation based on his stated assumptions actually
shows a big miss of at least 70 miles. Moore's fraudulent model
is in his book published by the esteemed Smithsonian Press. When
I pointed this out on my website, the Skeptical Inquirer circled
the wagons and instead attacked me as "incompetent" and accused
me of making "shrill accusations." I was also denied the
customary right of rebuttal by the editor of this so-called
magazine of "science and reason." What a hypocritical rag! Read
all the slimy details at my website:




>>>Forget about the Mogul balloon train!


>>Could you reference the Cavitt discussion with Weaver for me?
>>I recall that Cavitt simply refused to discuss the case at all
>>with Weaver, as he still felt that it was highly classified and
>>Weaver didn't have the clearance to hear the details. Cavitt
>>has refused all contact on this through the years and I don't
>>recall the Air Force getting much information from him for their
>>final Roswell reports.

>If I might step in here. I had several interviews with Cavitt
>including one at his winter residence in Sierra Vista and two
>at his home in Washington State. He told me, in order, that he
>hadn't been in Roswell in early July 1947, that he had been
>assigned to the base there but hadn't arrived yet and finally
>that he was there but that he didn't go out on any recovery of
>a balloon.

>You can read Cavitt's interview with Weaver in the Air Force
>produced The Roswell Report beginning in Section 18 and is dated
>24 May 1994. In it you can read how Cavitt explains that he
>recognized the material on the ranch as a weather balloon when
>he first saw it but doesn't explain why he didn't mention this
>to either Marcel or to COL Blanchard so they could have avoided
>the embarrassment of announcing they had a flying saucer.

>You can also read how there were no checkpoints out there though
>others have talked about them. In fact, you can read how Cavitt
>disagrees with nearly everyone who has talked about the case
>in some fashion.

>So, Cavitt is on the record, in several places, but his stories
>change as the mood moves him.

Most telling, Cavitt flatly denied a large balloon crash or the
existence of hieroglyphics or the Mogul 'flower tape'. This was
hardly evidence of a Mogul crash, though Weaver and also
co-propagandist McAndrew tried to spin it that way. Cavitt
didn't take Weaver's Mogul prompts and stuck to the 1947
singular weather balloon cover story.

Also, Cavitt denied any security or security oaths. He was
contradicted by his wife Mary in the same interview: "Cav never
told me anything. He said I'll never tell you anything then you
won't spread anything. We always wondered how little Jesse knew
so much. To us it should have been business."

Some real whoppers told by Cavitt were never meeting Mack Brazel
or going out with Marcel and Brazel to the ranch. (Cavitt
instead claimed going out only with his assistant Lewis Rickett,
who also contradicted his story.) Kind of makes you wonder how
he ever found Brazel's tiny balloon crash no bigger than his
living room without Brazel's help. Maybe he had GPS coordinates.

As Kevin says, Cavitt's story was not only highly inconsistent
and ever-changing, but was also contradicted by everyone else
(even his wife) and by 1947 news accounts. Simply put, Cavitt

Incidentally, for those interested, the full AF Roswell report
with the Cavitt interview can be downloaded as a very large pdf
file from the Air Force website:


David Rudiak

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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