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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Apr > Apr 24

Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:46:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:00:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions - Rudiak

>From: Gildas Bourdais <bourdais.gildas.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:48:09 +0200
>Subject: Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:27:36 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <bourdais.gildas.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:44:39 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions

>>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:50:13 EDT


>>>To me, there is a plausible explanation for the testimony of
>>>Bessie Brazel. What she remembered, perhaps, was picking up with
>>>her father some balloon debris on June 14. Her father said that
>>>it was just garbage, they filled a couple of bags, brought them
>>>back home and forgot about them. Until the military told Brazel,
>>>on July 8, to subsitute that finding to the discovery of the
>>>debris field at the beginning of July.

>>Thank you!

>>Ask and it shall be given! Seek and ye shall find!

>>That one detail bothered me for some time as she really went
>>into detail about it. Now I've got something that explains
>>what probably happened.

>>Don't know if she's still around but it would be good for
>>someone to interview her again just for the record.

>>Mr. Bourdais, these types of details are what the public will
>>need to know. Perhaps you, Mr. Friedman and Mr. Randle can mock
>>up your own questions and answers to the Roswell debate for
>>posterity. Maybe even a collaboration and I for one would pay
>>good money for it.

>Yes, that Bessie testimony bothered me too, but it may be solved
>nicely, as you see, once you admit that Brazel did find some
>balloon debris on June 14. It also explains his second story, in
>the evening of Tuesday 8, describing five pounds of balloon
>debris with scotch tape and flower design on it. The NYU team
>launched small clusters with targets every day in June, and it
>is quite plausible that Brazel found one of them. But the debris
>field of July was another story!

>I like your idea of writing a sort on common text on the basics
>of Roswell. But I am afraid it's going to be difficult. Some
>people ask me that too in France. I have a book to finish
>rapidly now, but perhaps I will try to write my own summary

Some other possibilities:

The White Sands weather station at Orogrande, N.M., about 35
miles south of Alamogordo where the Moguls were launched, sent
up high altitude weather balloons with radar targets starting 72
hours before every scheduled V-2 launch to chart high-altitude
winds. This was detailed in a story in the Alamogordo News on
July 10 (also the Las Cruces Citizen on June 26) accompanying
the balloon/radar target debunkery demonstration held at
Alamogordo on July 9:


Four such high-altitude balloons were sent up before the V-2
launch, at 72 hours, 48 hours, 24 hours, and 4 hours.

There was a V-2 launch on June 12, therefore four such balloons
would have been sent up between June 9 and June 12. It would
take a study of the actual records of these balloons to see if
any of them could have plausibly landed on the Foster ranch to
be discovered by Mack Brazel on June 14. Brazel would have
immediately picked it up to prevent his livestock from eating
any of it, yet Brazel said in his interview he ignored it and
didn't pick it up until almost 3 weeks later when his family was
there on July 4.

(An interesting aspect of these Orogrande weather balloons is
that they used a 2000 gram (4.5 pound) neoprene balloon (to loft
the balloon up to 100,000 feet) instead of the typical 350 gram
neoprene weather balloons used on the early Moguls. That would
better match Brazel's description of one large balloon with the
whole mass of balloon + foil + sticks adding up to maybe 5
pounds. There would have been a lot more debris from a Mogul.)

Another possibility was the scheduled July 3 V-2 launch which
was scrubbed at the last moment. Therefore 4 more balloon/radar
targets from Orogrande from June 30 to July 3. (Interestingly,
this V-2 carried explosive charges to test Mogul's sensors and
there were two flights that day: Flight 8 which went up early in
the morning anticipating the early V-2 launch, but the V-2
flight was delayed and they assembled Flight 9 for later launch,
but this was cancelled with the failure of the V-2 to be

Again, it would take analysis of flight records to see if any of
these Orogrande balloons might have ended up on the Foster

Bessie Brazel could conceivably have been at the Foster on July
4 & 5. The first day of the annual regional rodeo in Capitan was
July 4 and it was the big event of the year. Mack Brazel might
very well have picked up his family in Tulerosa, driven to the
rodeo in Capitan on July 4, then taken the family on up to the
ranch later the same day. At this point, on July 4, the family
maybe picked up debris, as reported in Brazel's interview. Maybe
Bessie Brazel's memories stem from this. In one account from
Bill Brazel, his father first drove the family home before
proceeding to Rowell to report his find. So if this happened,
Bessie Brazel would have been there maybe late July 4 through
early July 6. Another possibility is Brazel driving them home on
July 5, then going to Corona that night, mentioning what he had
found, and first being told about the flying saucers.

Regardless, by the time Marcel went back to the ranch with
Brazel late July 6, he reported that nobody else was there.
Brazel, he said, lived alone in a "shack" in the "middle of

This raises some other problems with Bessie Brazel's story of
being at the ranch during a large military recovery, which would
have started on July 8. Why would she not be there when Marcel
was there, yet be back the morning after Marcel returned to
Roswell? Also Bessie B. recalled being with her father when he
went into town (though adding that she wasn't certain about

Bessie also said her father found the material around July 4,
not back on June 14. She described a lot of debris and said they
spent several hours picking it up. She seemed to suggest they
picked up most if not all of it. Therefore why the need for the
military to return to the ranch to pick up more? Marcel
certainly indicated that when he got there there was an enormous
quantity scattered over a huge area and that he and Cavitt
picked up only a tiny portion of it. (The debunkers never
mention that Marcel was describing a huge area of debris clear
back in 1947. AP quoted Marcel in Fort Worth saying debris was
scattered over a square mile, and he told Leonard Stringfield
the same thing in 1979 or 1980. However, the debris seemed to be
concentrated in a linear path 200-300 feet wide by 3/4 mile
long, according to Marcel, with perhaps outlying pieces being
scattered over a square mile.)

Bessie said they collected the debris in several large burlap
sacks and took it back to the ranch house, but according to
Marcel in Fort Worth, Brazel told him he rolled the debris into
some bundles under some brush and then retrieved it after first
hearing about the flying saucers in Corona the evening of July
5. Brazel in his Daily Record interview claimed he rolled the
rubber into one bundle and the sticks and foil into another,
making two small bundles, and that was all of it. Why he didn't
simply bring these back to Roswell when he reported his
discovery and why Col. Blanchard would send out the two top
intelligence agents at Roswell to retrieve two simple bundles
are yet other issues avoided by the debunkers. Obviously there
had to have been much more to this than that.

Finally Bessie B.'s debris descriptions are at best a very
imperfect match to a weather balloon and radar target.
Affidavit: "The debris looked like pieces of a large balloon
that had burst. The pieces were small, the largest I remember
measuring about the same as the diameter of a basketball. Most
of it was a kind of double-sided material, foil-like on one side
and rubber-like on the other. Both sides were grayish silver in
color, the foil more silvery than the rubber.  ...The foil-
rubber material could not be torn like ordinary aluminum foil
can be torn.

This is _not_ a match to either neoprene rubber weather balloon
material of the alleged Mogul Flight #4, or the foil/paper on a
radar target. In the latter case, the foil is shiny and the
paper white, and it is easily torn. This is what was
photographed in Fort Worth on Ramey's office floor and you can't
have it both ways. Also the description of piece sizes does NOT
match up. The balloon shown is mostly intact, not in little
pieces, and the radar target is made up mostly of large pieces
of torn foil paper.

Of course, Bessie B. also described whitish tape attached to
kite-like sticks with pastel flowerlike designs, a similar
description as her father, and the skeptics say, "Aha, that
proves it - a Mogul radar-reflector with flower tape (neglecting
to mention that nobody, not even the Air Force, could find
anything like this in the Fort Worth photos).

So what are we to make of Bessie Brazel's story? I honestly
don't know. She doesn't seem to be deliberately lying, but many
parts of her story also don't add up, even though she
conceivably could have been at the ranch in the given time
frame. Maybe it's as neighbor Loretta Proctor and brother Bill
Brazel said, she wasn't there, and got her story mixed up. Maybe
she read her father's account in the Roswell Daily Record or
maybe she heard the story later and thought she was there. I
don't particularly like these badly distorted memory theories,
but this is a lot less weird than similar theories from the
debunkers like mistaken 6-foot crash dummies from the future
being mistaken for little alien bodies in 1947. Hah, that's a
good one!

David Rudiak

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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