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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Aug > Aug 21

Re: Crop Circles Discussion

From: John Rimmer <j.rimmer.nul>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:36:15 +0100
Archived: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:13:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop Circles Discussion

>From: Paul Scott Anderson <paulscottanderson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:58:59 -0700
>Subject: Re: Crop Circles Discussion

>>From: John Rimmer <j.rimmer.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:20:15 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Crop Circles Discussion

>>I am familiar with most of the cases cited above. They are, as
>>you say, mostly simple circles which probably have a
>>meteorological explanation. We will never know just how regular
>>and 'hard-edged' they may be because we are usully dependent on
>>verbal descriptions made after the event. The Tully, Queensland,
>>'saucer nests' have been widely discussed in the UFO literature
>>and they have only a marginal connection with the broader crop-
>>circle phenomenon. Stanton Friedman points out that ground
>>markings and crop damage are familiar to ufologists, who have
>>probably examined thousands in Britain, Europe and North America
>>over the last sixty years. To claim all these as 'crop circles'
>>is going to muddy the waters even more.

>That is something I've been saying for years now, that because
>almost all older cases are simpler circles and rings, it may
>indicate that the genuine phenomenon is natural in origin after
>all. Maybe.

>I've never claimed that all ground markings are the same as crop
>circles. I even make reference to that on the CCCRN web site, if
>you've ever bothered to read any of it. I don't have any of the
>burned rings, circles of missing vegetation, etc. in the web
>site archives. Those are what I would call classic landing trace
>cases. But other formations are of flattened, swirled crops or
>other vegetation. The _same characteristics_ as crop circles as
>we now know them. It's that simple.

I have got no problems at all with the idea that certain
meteorological conditions will create circular depressions in
standing crops. Some of these circles will probably have sharp
edges. However they do not seem to be a very frequent occurance,
largely of interest to meteorologists and to a lesser degree
farmers, and I don't see any reason to get particularly worked
up about them.

What we, surely, are talking about is 'Crop Circles', elaborate
constructions which indicate some form of intelligent design -
 to coin a phrase! These are entirely a product of the 1980s and
later, starting in Southern England and spreading outward over
the rest of the country and abroad. My point in raising the
issue of UFO-related ground markings was to demonstrate that
ufologists have been carefully studying and recording such
markings almost from the beginning of the UFO era, but did not
seem to come across anything resembling modern Crop Circles
until the 1980s. The singular lack of such markings at
Warminster in the 1960s and 1970s in the very heart of Crop
Circle country, is I think, conclusive.

Your phrase 'the genuine phenomenon' simply begs the question.
Are you saying that only single-circle markings can be accepted
as genuine natural phenomena? If so, I would tend to agree with
you, but that does rather render the whole topic of 'crop circle
studies' rather pointless.

John Rimmer

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