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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Aug > Aug 23

Re: Crop Circles Discussion

From: Paul Scott Anderson <paulscottanderson.nul>
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:05:55 -0700
Archived: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:27:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop Circles Discussion

>From: John Rimmer <j.rimmer.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:36:15 +0100
>Subject: Re: Crop Circles Discussion

>I have got no problems at all with the idea that certain
>meteorological conditions will create circular depressions in
>standing crops. Some of these circles will probably have sharp
>edges. However they do not seem to be a very frequent occurance,
>largely of interest to meteorologists and to a lesser degree
>farmers, and I don't see any reason to get particularly worked
>up about them.

It would still be an interesting phenomenon, because 'normal'
meteorological effects like dust devils, tornadoes, etc. typically
produce roughly circular patches, but not sharp-edged circles
with elegant, spiralling lay patterns. Complex lay patterns have
been seen and documented even in the simplest of circles

>What we, surely, are talking about is 'Crop Circles', elaborate
>constructions which indicate some form of intelligent design -
>to coin a phrase! These are entirely a product of the 1980s and
>later, starting in Southern England and spreading outward over
>the rest of the country and abroad. My point in raising the
>issue of UFO-related ground markings was to demonstrate that
>ufologists have been carefully studying and recording such
>markings almost from the beginning of the UFO era, but did not
>seem to come across anything resembling modern Crop Circles
>until the 1980s. The singular lack of such markings at
>Warminster in the 1960s and 1970s in the very heart of Crop
>Circle country, is I think, conclusive.

That's part of the problem. Most people's idea of a 'crop
circle' now is a complex pattern or design. But, by the real
definition, it is any circular _or_ geometric flattened
formation. Again, yes, the more complex patterns began, for the
most part, after the 1980s. But there are many cases of simple
circles and rings before that (and _not_ of the typical 'landing
trace' variety with crushed plants and soil, burned plants,
etc.). You also need to look past Warminster and realize that
there were other cases in other areas and countries. Just
because there may be a lack of such reports in Warminster does
_not_ mean they were not happening elsewhere. I already gave you
a good list of links. What people fail to realize is that,
according to these older historical reports, circles have always
been something global, long before the first numerous complex
patterns starting being seen in England in the 80s and 90s.

Did you not see the Nature magazine account I linked to before?
Flattened, swirled circles in Surrey, England (1880) with standing
centres. Not the usual 'landing trace' description, but not typical
meteorological damage, either, although they were found after
a storm.

>Your phrase 'the genuine phenomenon' simply begs the question.
>Are you saying that only single-circle markings can be accepted
>as genuine natural phenomena? If so, I would tend to agree with
>you, but that does rather render the whole topic of 'crop circle
>studies' rather pointless.

Pointless? Far from it, for the reason I first noted above. And
they may have a natural origin and they may not. But 'genuine'
circles are any that are not man-made, simple as that. Even
simple circles (in the 70s and 80s in England) sometimes
displayed oddities like self-referencing themselves to subtle
colour changes in a field which could only be seen from above
and not on the ground. Why? How? There are a lot of 'funny
little details' like that which most people probably aren't even
aware of.

Even if it did turn out that only the simpler circles were
genuine, with a natural origin, because of their physical
characteristics it would probably point to some previously
little known or understood meteorological phenomenon. Perhaps
not exactly like what Terence Meaden first proposed back in the
80s (the plasma-vortex), but maybe similar. Would learning about
that be pointless? I think not.

Paul Scott Anderson

Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

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