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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Dec > Dec 6

Re: Edward Condon [was: Newly Released CIA

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:05:54 EST
Archived: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:57:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Edward Condon [was: Newly Released CIA

>From: Vincent Boudreau <vincentboudreau.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:12:50 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: Re: Newly Released CIA Documents On UFOs?

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:39:40 EST
>>Subject: Re: Newly Released CIA Documents On UFOs?

>>>From: Vincent Boudreau <vincentboudreau.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:53:09 -0500 (EST)
>>>Subject: Re: Newly Released CIA Documents On UFOs?


>>>I discovered in Edward Condon an honest man who, in the end, had to
>>>bend to his employers. It must have been very difficult for him.

>>Oh please! You must be joking. Condon was not working for the
>>CIA just because he got a briefing there! He was working for the
>>far more insidious and hostile AF.


>No, I am not joking. Please read on.

Further on you do not say anything about Condon working for the
CIA or him "bending" to his "employers".

>>>This is probably old knowledge for the seasoned ufologists on
>>>the List (and old suppression for the seasoned debunkers).

>>Speaking of "suppression" aren't you leaving out the most
>>salient point which is that our pro-UFO hero David R. Saunders
>>was part of Condon's group visiting the CIA? You also left out
>>that they weren't visiting some spooky CIA spy operation but
>>simply touring the photographic facilities of NPIC which
>>processed U-2 and satellite recon pics.

>>Saunders never breathed a word of his CIA NPIC visit and
>>contacts to anyone, even after Condon fired him in Feb 1968 over
>>the famous pro-UFO incident when he leaked the Low 'trick' memo
>>to McDonald. Why not ponder the coverup involved with that?


>You said that the concerned document is "nothing new". Obviously
>it has been a long time since you read it: there is no reference
>to any R. Saunders and no mention of anyone touring anything.

I told you there were other CIA NPIC documents on Condon, and
they are posted on CIA's public FOIA website.

No Saunders? No touring NPIC??Here is NPIC Director Art
Lundahl's memo to his boss the DDI on Feb, 7, 1967:

"It is now requested by Ratchford that certain scientists be
permitted to come to NPIC on 20 February to discuss technical
aspects of photogrammetry and to see some of our special optical
gear which is used to measure, enlarge, or trace isodensitometry
of photos. These scientists include:

"Dr. E. U. Condon   -   University of Colorado
"Dr. Robert Lowe [sic]     "       "
"Dr. David Saunders      "       "        ..."

The NPIC after-report of the Condon-Low-Saunders visit tells
about what they toured at NPIC (Feb. 23, 1967, memo):

"On 20 February 1967 at 0915 Dr. Condon and four members of his
investigative team visited NPIC. With Dr. Condon were Dr.
Richard [sic] Lowe [sic], University of Colorado, Dr. David
Saunders, University of Colorado....

"e. [Deleted name NPIC staff member] then escorted the group
into the new clean area [at NPIC] where they viewed and
discussed the isodensitometer and the new Mann

"f. ... [Deleted] then conducted the group into the [NPIC]
instrument area where the Point Transfer Device, Mann 880
Comparator, the Benson-Lehner Plotter and the NRI were viewed by
the group."

>It is only a report on the reactions of Condon and his group on
>the value of the Zanesville photography.

The value of the Zanesville photos to Condon was that the NPIC
assistance helped prove it was a HOAX. The May 8, 1967, NPIC
memo describes a briefing on the Zanesville case during Condon's
May 5 visit to CIA, given by (deleted name) Everitt Merritt of
Raytheon Autometrics Division, apparently a CIA contractor that
worked with NPIC.

Condon made arrangements to contract with Raytheon and Merritt
to apply his UFO photoanalysis techniques developed with the
Zanesville hoax case to other UFO photo cases. The only other
case where there was a stereo pair allowing photogrammetry was
the famous McMinnville case. But this was the nearest thing to a
genuine UFO, according to Condon's own astronomer photoanalyst
William K. Hartmann (who was with Condon at CIA in May 1967).

So Condon lied and claimed in his Final Report that the
McMinnville photos were "too fuzzy" to apply Merritt's
techniques, and so Merritt never got a contract to do the
analysis of McMinnville. Meanwhile in the years since, Bruce
Maccabee and I have been doing Merritt's kind of photogrammetry
on the McMinnville photos, but without his Raytheon equipment.
Such a tragic loss to science, all because Condon was determined
to not help prove UFO reality.

>More: the reader discovers in Condon a passionate man overly
>enthusiastic about the possibility it is the real deal. He even
>wanted to share this with the public.

You need to read up on tricky Condon. He told an audience of the
American Chemical Society on January 25, 1967, that he the
government should "get out of this [UFO] business" because
"there's nothing to it." Condon smiled and added "but I'm not
supposed to reach a conclusion for another year."

(Saunders & Harkins UFOs>? Yes! 1968 p. 117; Jacobs 1976
p. 201

Condon was famed for his love of contactee "kook" cases, his
frequent cursing of the "damn ooo-foe" as he liked to pronounce
it. Condon made up bogus evidence against UFO reality, such as
his egregious lie that witnesses to a prank hot-air balloon in
Castle Rock, Colo., had reported seeing a "spacecraft ... with
occupants." In fact no one reported any such thing and all of
the reports right in the Condon Report accurately described a
slow-moving balloon-like translucent object.

>That is all that is said, written and inferred in the reference
>I mentioned.

>I thought this was some lesson of life: people change under
>whatever pressure.

>It is also evident that Condon did not deny the reality of UFOs.

Again, you need to read up on Condon.

>For me, this is a good story about human nature, when you
>consider how the man was demonized - and still is - by

Uh huh. You need to talk to someone who was actually there, like
Dick Hall.

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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