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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Dec > Dec 12

Re: Pilots' Out-Of-Body Experiences

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:34:33 -0400
Archived: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:04:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilots' Out-Of-Body Experiences

>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:08:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Pilots' Out-Of-Body Experiences

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:47:30 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Pilots' Out-Of-Body Experiences

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:16:59 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Pilots' Out-Of-Body Experiences


>>>My pilot friend didn't think JFK Jr had an SD problem either.
>>>Although JFK Jr was an experienced and cautious pilot, and his
>>>aircraft was well equipped with instruments, my friend told me
>>>that he was flying nearby during that same time period JFK Jr's
>>>aircraft went down and remembers that the visibility was lousy.
>>>Also, having two women in the aircraft could well have caused an
>>>added distraction.

>>>In support of my suspicions of foul play, my pilot friend did
>>>say he heard a report that someone near the destination Kennedy
>>>was trying to reach, either heard an explosion, saw a flash of
>>>light through the haze above him, or both.
>>Bull pucky. Kennedy Jr. was a 300 hour pilot with no night
>>rating let alone an instrument rating flying a 200mph Piper that
>>he basically had about 100 hours of flight time on. He got
>>behind it in haze over water at dusk while flying to Martha's
>>Vinyard. He went into a spiral, lost a wing and impacted the
>>water at 60mph - his Air Speed Indicator, ASI, showed "witness
>>marks" on the instruments face at that speed. The wreck clearly
>>showed there was no explosion. A large portion of one wing was
>>found a good distance away indicating wing separation. He had
>>the necessary instruments onboard to fly without a horizon as a
>>reference but didn't have the training to do so.
>>No conspiracy here just classic symptoms of inexperience, the
>>time of day, no IFR training, his training was behind the
>>airplane's capabilitiy [200mph] an urge to complete the mission,
>>bad weather and SD. Most times it takes about three things piling
>>up - it's called cascading events - to "get you", Kennedy had 7.

>Bullpucky, not! In WWII the allied pilots and flight crews that
>flew the large bombers loaded to capacity with bombs to distant
>tragets they never visited or even heard of before, often under
>the cover of darkness and clouds, didn't have much more actual
>flying experience than Kennedy Jr had.

>When I was learning to fly in a Cessna 172, my instructor put
>the plane in a spin and a spiral so that I could distinguish
>between the two and be able to recover from them. When I
>expressed concerns that such violent moves may rip the plane's
>wings off, my instructor, who also did aerobatics, reassured me
>that this was impossible. Of course if my wing support strut was
>tampered with, this would explain why JFK Jr's wing was found a
>good distance away as you say.

When your instructor put you into a spin he then centered
rudder, pulled power and recovered from the spin by adding power
slowly as you came out. When I was taking the course you had to
do spins yourself, a half dozen times, and recover. When your
instructor put the C-172 into a spiral it was just long enough
to show you how quickly the altitude deteriorated and the speed
came up but he did not allow the plane to continue in a fully
developed spiral. He would not tell you that a wing would not
tear off in a fully developed spiral.

Depending on the bank [left ot right] the high wing will undergo
terrific tortional stress and will fail eventually. Because it is
such a sneaky buildup exacerbated by not watching your airspeed
and rate of decent in a bank that's why they teach you how to
recognize a spiral.

Kennedy was flying a low-wing Piper Saratoga with a spar
substantially stronger than the strut-supported wing on the 172.
In both cases the spar depends on the D-cell at the leading edge
of the wing. When the lift gets so great at the leading edge at
outer end of the wing that it twists the wing up and back around
the spar it will tear the D-cell then twist the spar, shearing it
which will rip it free somewhere between 1/3rd and halfway in
from the end of the wing. Having lost that and the aileron
balance control cable the plane will then quickly snap around its
longitudinal axis due to the greater lift of the "good" wing. But
there is now no aileron control because the balance cable linking
both ailerons has been torn loose. Leave any plane stressed to
~4.5 positive and ~1.8 negative Gs in a spiral and it will lose a
wing-strut or no strut.

>According to another interpretion of what happened that is based
>on witness testimony, not like yours which is based simply on
>the official account (and we know just how unreliable these can
>be when it comes to UFO incidents!) there apparently was an
>explosion. A reporter for the Vineyard Gazette newspaper told
>WCVB-TV in Boston that he was out walking Friday night about the
>time of the crash and saw "big white flash in the sky" off
>Philbin Beach (see URL below).


>According to this same URL, visibility at the time was reported
>to be 8 miles, clear enough to fly without instruments. If these
>claims are correct, then it could not have been any one of your
>7 things - or all of them combined - that led to this fatal
>crash (which I suspect was an assassination of another Kennedy
>and another attack on freedom in America).

The visibility might have been 8 miles but at what level?

Kennedy descended into haze and lost the horizon. His airplane a
1996 model Piper Saratoga II HP had a fuel injected IO-540-300-
horsepower engine that would have quickly dragged that airplane
past its cruise of about 190 mph and its limitations when he
lost situational awareness and started spiraling.

Imagine the coilspring in a car [when they used to have them]
that's what a spiral looks like with one wing some 25-35 degrees
above the horizontal and the other below. It's not a violent
sensation that's what is tricky/deadly about spirals. The speed
builds up quickly with your engine hammering away helping to the
aircraft to spiral downwards ever faster until it reaches its
Velocity-never exceed [Vne] speed and it starts to break up.

If Kennedy was following the rules - and wasn't using oxygen -
then he was at or below 8,500 feet at that time of the
day[dusk]. Over ocean you want all the altitude you can get.
8,500 feet is plenty of time to get in 4 to 5 360 degree turns
of a spiral and tear off a wing.

>Ignoring or discounting any eyewitness testimony because it
>conflicts with the official account does not help in our search
>for the truth but it does serve the goals of debunkers who don't
>want us to give further attention to something important, such
>as UFOs and other cover-ups.

I don't buy this one, Nick. I and a lot of pilots think the TWA-
800 explanation is lame but I saw the wreckage photos of
Kennedy's aircraft and I saw nothing there to suggest an
explosion - and I was looking like everyone else back in the

Don Ledger

[None of which has much to do with UFOs, gentlemen--ebk]

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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