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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Jan > Jan 1

Re: Mac Tonnies' The Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:09:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 08:53:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Mac Tonnies' The Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis


>From: Paul Kimball <TheRobieShark.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:07:27 EST
>Subject: Re: Mac Tonnies' The Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 18:09:08 -0400
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Mac Tonnies' The Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis

>>>From: Paul Kimball <TheRobieShark.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:14:54 EST
>>>Subject: Re: Mac Tonnies' The Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis

>>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:33:33 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: Mac Tonnies' The Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis

>><snip>

>>You obviously haven't considered the statement below.
>>"When radar picked us up, we were at 38,000 feet and the U-2 was
>>directly above us at 72,000 feet."

>>Who said it was a U-2? Where did this information come from?

>And you obviously didn't read Lieut. Col. Bailey's account very
>closely. On the first line he makes it clear that his RB-47 was
>flying a joint mission with the U-2, i.e. his crew knew exactly
>where the U-2 was, and what it was - as opposed to the F-102s,
>which did not.

>Before you criticize, you should make sure you've read these
>things closely.

Well it appears that I boo-booed there as did you [neither one
of us can read apparently] below. I didn't go back far enough in
the sentence before chopping the text. My bad.

<snip>

>>You seem to want to settle for minimal accuracy.

>When in a glass house, Don...

Good view though. But neither of us is perfect.

>See my comments above again, and my comments about reading
>things closely (i.e. accuracy). It was the F-102s who did the
>averaging, not the RB-47 crew. Once again, Bailey's crew knew
>exactly where the U-2 was, and what it was.

It was the ground controller (accuracy) who did the averaging
not the F-102 fighters according to the above and he vectored
the F-102s to the bogus 55,000 foot altitude.

Also you mentioned to Martin the following:

On the flip side, Bruce was nice enough to talk at some length
with me about his own RB-47 sighting, distinct from the classic
1957 case investigated by James McDonald, but with almost all of
the same characteristics, except for the length (The crew's
sighting in Bailey's case was about ten minutes long).

According to the text-which I've re-read more thoroughly - the
RB-47 crew didn't see anything, it was the F-102 pilots who
eventually had the visual when the "U-2" descended to ~55 grand.

>However, I'm no expert on the U-2, or the F-102, or any of this
>stuff, nor do I pretend to be. Accordingly, I'll refer your note
>to Lieut. Col. Bailey and see what he has to say about it, if
>anything.

Or send it to a pilot who was flying the U-2. Bailey was flying
B-47s though he was probably not aware of the U-2s flight
envelope and its abilities only that which affected his
exercise. He was need-to-know perhaps only where it affected his
being able to work with the U-2 but likely wasn't privy to all
of the U-2s specifications and abilities. But he could look them
up on the internet now.

The whole problem with this indent is with the F-102 pilots'
claims (according to Col.Bailey) in the following.: "The U-2
pilot heard all that and stood the U-2 on its tail (impossible)
and began climbing at an unbelievable rate(again impossible).
The two F-102 pilots were flying our latest and greatest
interceptor and were barely hanging in the air at that altitude.
Then that unknown plane, which was still well above them,
climbed away nearly straight up (again, impossible for the U-2).

This sounds like one of those cases where the mundane and the
anomalous were occuring at the same time.

Do you have a more fully developed text for this case or had you
published all that you have?


Best,

Don




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