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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Jul > Jul 3

Re: A Martian Genocide? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:44:48 -0300
Archived: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:19:16 -0400
Subject: Re: A Martian Genocide? - Ledger

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:36:52 -0300
>>Subject: Re: A Martian Genocide?

>>>From: Michael Tarbell <mtarbell.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 10:01:49 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: A Martian Genocide?

>>>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.4.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:10:43 +0100
>>>>Subject: Re: A Martian Genocide?

>>>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:12:42 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>>>>Subject: Re: A Martian Genocide?


>>>>Give it up Nick. Of course we're going to go rampaging through
>>>>the Universe when we're able to, killing and stealing and
>>>>fighting. Its what we do.

>>>>Setting your Biblical scenario aside and wiping the slate clean,
>>>>wouldn't it be real fun if we were the most intelligent species
>>>>around for billions of light years.

>>>Well, our budding planetary crusaders had certainly better
>>>_hope_ that's the case, if they intend to just go on doing "what
>>>we do".

>>What makes you think what we do is any different than what they
>>do? Do you have inside information? At any rate Mars is less
>>than one grain of sand on the beach of the universe. Restricting
>>ourselves to this one planet is homogenocide and frankly pretty
>>stuffy thinking.

>If what they do is no different than what we do, I think we can
>consider the Fermi Paradox pretty well resolved... don't hold
>your breath waiting for someone to show up.

That's what I call stuffy thinking. You seem to be basing your
thinking on the standard scenario for North American and Western
European humans, Mom, Dad the 2.3 kids, nice home in the
suburbs, two cars... blah, blah, blah. That's not thinking
outside the box.

We have no idea what social structures they have, their feelings
on ecology, whether medicine should be socialized, etc. I'm not
sure if we can even imagine some other social structure not
based on the family unit and the way we do things now in our
relative infancy. Trying to even imagine some thousands of
different species out there who have been doing it for millions
and billions of years is way beyond what we have experience

>I say again, consider how and why it is that remaining here
>would be "homogenocide". Dispense with the trivial point that
>Earth will eventually become uninhabitable by 'natural' causes,
>e.g., the red giant phase of our sun or some other nearby
>cataclysm. This is true of all planets, if not most of
>interstellar space. Is it not clear that the predicament for
>human civilization has much more immediacy than that?

No I don't subscribe to the theory that we will just burn
ourselves out because we run out of resources or 5 billion years
from now the Sun goes red dwarf. Earth will abide, perhaps for
hundreds of thousands of years as a stable habitat, but is
destined to become the seed planet for the next species to
invade deep space. Otherwise we implode as a species choking on
our own growth and stagnation and lack of expansive thinking.

>By every measure, as a species we have been rushing headlong
>_away_ from equilibrium with our ecosystem. Is there some reason
>to think that our arrival on a new planet is going to change

I never suggested that. No, I imagine we will plunder and carry
on just the way we have until we figure out a way to do it
right, perhaps the same the other species have done - or might
have done-for millions of years. I don't think Mars should be
untouchable, but we should try to identify what microbial life
is there before contaminating the place. But I don't think we
have an unending patience for that, nor the time.

>From the viewpoint of intelligent beings already present
>(whether indiginous or not), which term do you suppose applies:
>migration, or infection?

Both but let's not forget the survival of the fittest... but we
don't know what's on Mars that could kick our biological butts
and bring us to a screeching halt. Size doesn't matter, the
ability to invade a host and take it over is the key-like the
flu or some plague. Mars might fight back turning Wells'
ultimate defence against us. It's not what's on the surface that
worries me, it's what lies beneath.

>If you assume (I do not) that 'they' are essentially similar to
>us in both attitude and behavior,

No... that's a mistake in my estimation, believing that they are
anything like us. If there are a thousand or more species out
there already exploring space there's a good chance that none of
them come close to our way or 1,000 different ways of thinking.

>we can certainly expect the
>equivalent of a fogging with insecticide if we make bold to
>expand our borders, and probably even if we stay put. Just ask
>your local endangered species.

It's certain segments of the human population that is
responsible for endangered species including some of us humans.
Many of us don't even know it's going on.

I live on the East coast of Canada, where there was a study done
that indicated there was a higher percentage of absentee workers
due to sickness here than further to the West. Most of this - it
was found - was due to a high rate of respiratory ailments. Well
it just happens that we are on the receiving end of the
pollution spewing smoke stacks in central, and North Eastern
United States and Central Canada [known as Eastern Canada up
here]. The prevailing winds are from the west. The acid rain
[from the West] has killed our rivers and lake fish not to
mention water fowl, and of course people. We have very little
heavy industry and less than 1/30th of Canada's population here
in Nova Scotia. Not much we can do about it either. Curiously we
lead the world in people living over 100 years. Go figure. I
know this doesn't answer any questions but at least I got it off
my fluid filled chest.

Don Ledger

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