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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Jul > Jul 14

Re: 'Out of the Blue' Do Aliens Exist? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:41:15 -0300
Archived: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:58:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Out of the Blue' Do Aliens Exist? - Ledger

>From: Bill Weber <wweber1.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:50:32 -0400
>Subject: Re: 'Out of the Blue' Do Aliens Exist?

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
>>Date: Friday, July 06, 2007 10:27 AM
>>Subject: 'Out of the Blue' Do Aliens Exist?

>>Source: ABC News - USA


>>July 06 2007

>>'Out of the Blue' Do Aliens Exist?

>>Fascination With Life Beyond Earth Inspires New Documentary

>>It's an age-old question: Are we alone in the universe?


>>Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic Magazine, says, "The
>>parade of astronauts or police officers or politicians like
>>Jimmy Carter - it's irrelevant. Because they're human and
>>they're brains and nervous systems and sensory apparatus are
>>structured just like the average Joes."

>And they're especially irrelevant if they've witnessed
>something inexplicable. Not only does this place the cart
>before the horse, but it makes us the only area of interest that
>is witness proof. No witness testimoney can be trusted because
>they're...human? That's a pretty high bar, first proving
>witness supernatural infallibility and all. And hasn't this
>point been argued unsuccessfully on UpDates by far brainier
>people than I for at least the last eight years? The more
>things change... the more you have to ignore.

>>Shermer spends a lot of time with reports of UFOs and space
>>aliens, and has this to say about the documentary: "Um, the facts
>>are true. The, uh, the story is well told and well produced. But
>>that's not how science works. In science we have to have some way
>>of testing to get an answer. It's this or this. And we have to
>>have some way of weighing the evidence. And short of an actual
>>experiment to run you have to have debate."

Hi Bill,

Re Jimmy Carter, his education often gets ignored when his
sighting is brought up.

First, I'm not sure where Shermer gets off presenting himself as
a  scientist. He's a Psychologist and can't even write
prescriptions. He's way down the chain from say the late John
Mack who was a scientist albeit in a soft field like psychiatry.
Shermer's science hasn't been able to nail down a thought and
say it exists so apparently it doesn't exist. Since when do
psychologist do lab work.

Shermer says that Jimmy Carter for instance was just another
"Joe" when it came to seeing UFOs.

Note these facts:

Carter attended Georgia Southwestern College and Georgia
Institute of Technology and received a Bachelor of Science
degree from the United States Naval Academy in 1946.[5] Carter
was a gifted student and finished 59th out of his Academy class
of 820. Carter served on submarines in the Atlantic and Pacific
fleets. He was later selected by Captain (later Admiral) Hyman
G. Rickover for the U.S. Navy's fledgling nuclear submarine
program, where Carter became a qualified command officer.

Carter's ultimate goal was to become Chief of Naval Operations.
Because of this,Carter did some post-graduate work, studying
nuclear physics and reactor technology for several months at
Union College starting in March 1953. That was cut short by the
death of his father and he resigned his commission to take over
the family business.

Now that's far and a way more of a science education than what
Shermer has. Shermer was sitting beside Stan Friedman on Larry
King last night. Stan was the scientist not Shermer. Shermer has
no business toting himself as a scientist any more than many of
the others that show up in his magazine or on his website. But
Shermer makes a living being a "skeptic" and has to debunk from
the gitgo. He makes pronoucements without evidentary back-up.


>>"The question itself I think is legitimate," he said. "It's
>>interesting, it's fascinating. It's mythic in scale . one of the
>>grand questions. It's like the God question or, you know, the
>>meaning-of-life question. It's one of those, on that scale. So
>>you'd have to be made of wood not to be interested and, you
>>know, have they come here? Are they up there?"

>Edit out the snark and you have to be made of 'something else'
>entirely to feign an interest in the question while ignoring the
>experiences and evidence of thousands of otherwise honest and
>sane people. It allows you to pretend to have an open mind.

>And once you remove the nutballs, freaks, cultists and frauds -
>then what? Same old legitimate question - same old illegitimate
>skeptibunky response. As the saying goes, Michael Shermer
>couldn't talk me out of a burning building.

We are often accused of preaching to the converted by the likes
of Shermer when we both know that is not true. We argue all of
the time about the validity of UFO cases, but I don't see this
healthy discourse amonst the skeptics or in the case of Shermer,
the debunkers. They seem to be in some sort of lockstep of
ignorance wearing blinders and with their telltale lobotomy scar
as a trademark.

Larry King, BTW is a terrible interviewer. He has a bad habit of
jumping in with some inane question just as someone is making a

Don Ledger

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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