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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Jul > Jul 28

Re: Why The Cover-Up?

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:23:47 -0700
Archived: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:32:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Why The Cover-Up?

>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:44:27 -0300
>Subject: Re: Why The Cover-Up?

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:18:24 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Why The Cover-Up?

>>>What has the speed of light got to do with the ETH? That's like
>>>saying that the theory that the west was populated with settlers
>>>couldn't happen because wagon trains were too slow. Speed has
>>>nothing to do with it. Time is the significant factor here and
>>>there are billions of years of time.
>>>Your whole argument falls apart over this one point.


>>I disagree. Speed is the main factor. God may have all the time
>>she needs but our lifetimes are very limited.

>I think it's your imagination that is limited, Ed. One person's
>or entity's lifetime has nothing to do with it. You are asuming
>point to point contact. They are there we are here and they
>somehow made a beeline for us because they, you and Shirmer have
>this fixation on anal probes. So does my proctologist but no one
>is taking him to task for it.

>That aside, my view of what life that evolved in our galaxy
>never mind the universe did so billions of years ago and spread
>out through space. They didn't know anything about our little
>planet and likely stumbled across it while scanning from some
>light years away while passing through. This could have been
>several millions of years ago or maybe a few hundred thousand
>year. We should stick out like a sore thumb with the equipment
>some of the dozens of species who have had space technology for
>millions of years would have.

>Think about this Ed; if you have conquered space what else have
>you got to do but explore? We have naturalists on this planet
>who will happily spend their whole lives in pursuit of one type
>of butterfly. I'd bet the same applies for some superexploration
>teams that live and die in space having never seen their home
>planet which perhaps has long since ceased to exist.

Hi Don,

The above is simply speculation on your part. I do not believe,
nor is there any evidence, that humans or any other life form,
have or will ever freely explore the universe and fly from star
to star. I think you and others who have faith in the ETH have
invented a nice bedtime story. But science says it won't fly.
The speed and energy requirements are the main stumbling blocks,
but desire is also necessary. An underlying assumption to such
futuristic thinking is that human population will continue to
grow and that there will be new technology fueled by this
growth. That's not necessarily a correct assumption. It might
happen, but there could be much to interrupt our progress.

If you submitted the above narrative to a panel of scientists,
would they agree? I don't mind if you believe this; I did for
many years. But don't treat me like the community idiot because
I've lost faith;  I don't believe this dogma any longer. Can't
you understand that? It happened in a rush of insight. I had
just viewed the Alien Autopsy footage several times and was
focusing on the brain removal when it really hit me. This is a
flesh and blood creature! Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot!!

Once you've had a life changing experience, your life changes. I
began to question all that I had thought about and learned
during my previous quest to understand UFO.

>>Why shouldn't we
>>assume the same for our visitors? I think we'll find that travel
>>in the universe is severely limited by the distances involved
>>and light speed will be necessary for travel within a realistic
>>timeframe. Also the energy requirements for FTL are prohibitive.
>>The laws of physics indicate that getting even a small amount of
>>matter to light speed will require all the energy in the

>The universe is 14.7 billion years old, that's plenty of time for
>many super civilizations to have come and even gone.

The earth is five billion years old and life has been here
for four and a half billion years. That's more than enough time
for many civilizations to have come and gone, too. Why should
we be the only one? Do you think humans are special?

>What you seem not to understand is that we can get to sublight
>speeds and even though the rule still applies it's the species
>outside the craft that have to put up with the tremendous
>problems of time-NOT the travelers.

There's not a reason to believe that we can even reach sublight
speeds or that we would be motivated to spend the time and
effort to do so. But why not be specific? Give a realistic
example of how all this might work.

>Do you seriously think that some species [and I mean hundreds or
>thousands of different types of species] that's had technology
>for millions of years can't get by a little thing like the speed
>of light.

First of all there is not a grain of evidence that any species
can survive their own technology for more than a few hundred
years. We've been successful for a little over one hundred years
and it's a toss up whether we'll make it for another hundred.
I'm not saying we won't, but it's far from a done deal.

>>That's too high a price to pay just to give a few rectal exams

>Answered above.

No it wasn't.

>>to dangerous animals on a distant and inhospitable planet.

>There's nothing inhospitable about Earth unless you are a
>species that breaths Sulphuric acid.

Microbes, snakes, tigers, red ants, and humans. We are very
dangerous and armed and are not about to let anyone mess with us
too long: "there is some shit I will not eat" (ee cummings)

>And we would be no more
>dangerous than other species that have just recently lumbered
>into space.

Evidence please. Who else do you know lumbering out there.

>That's old sci-fi crap-the notion that other
>intelligent species evolved without killing one another.
>Dolphins are looked apon as a benign mammal but they still eat
>other species to survive as do whales and and everything else on
>this planet.

I don't recall saying anything about this. Do you have me
confused with another Ed.

>>>Why after co-existing with us for millions of years are these
>>>"critters" so interested in our bowels and sexual reproductive
>>>systems? Where is their whole [social, maunufacturing, housing,
>>>economic based] infrastructure.

>>I don't know why they are interested in us. I think they have
>>always interacted with humans in some way. I mostly agree with
>>Fort: "we are being farmed!"

>I don't. man's need-usually for some religious reason, to whip
>himself, atone for being alive-and enjoying it. I think "they"
>came, they saw and hung around to see how we are making out,
>watching us evolve like they watched thousands of other species
>evolve. Some species made it into space, some didn't. Doesn't
>matter, they would still be worth studying.

I think this is dreamland. And you think I'm unscientific. You
might be correct, and you have every right to your opinion and
faith, but where is your evidence for this belief. Why do you
believe this?

>>Since I think the ancient hominid civilization is at least one
>>hundred million years old, they've had time to live wherever
>>they wish, maybe Mars or the back side of the moon or under the
>>oceans or underground or in super mother ships.

>I'll give you some ETI doing this save the underground bases
>theory. The oceans may be just a safe haven between operations
>or observations. But cripes these are one generous species who
>just got the hell out of the way so we could have all of the
>good real estate.

They may have learned something during the last one hundred
million years and decided it was safer somewhere else and to
rent it to us for a yet-to-be-determined fee.

>>I don't know
>>about their infrastructure, but if they employ nanotechnology,
>>then it could be very self-sufficient. We're not far from that
>>goal ourselves. Their population could be quite small (less than
>>a million) and easily hidden. It may be in decline. I just don't
>>have answers for these questions.

>If you don't have answers then how can you be so positive that
>they exist. Are you taking it on faith?

I have a belief in my own theories but I'm not 100% sure. I'm
just proposing a hypothesis that UFO are piloted by creatures
from an ancient civilization and that the evolutionary mechanism
was convergent evolution.

I pointed out that there was plenty of time for this to happen
and evidence would not be apparent or obvious.

I'm not making a declaration although I would bet on it if I had
the chance. But I don't have any way to know the above answers,
any more than you have sure proof that your speculations are
correct regarding the ETH.

You have an hypothesis and I have one too. But I haven't implied
that yours is something from grade school musings, or that those
who support your faith are nitwits or numbskulls. I know you're
all fine chaps, with hearts of gold, so let's cut the insults
and patronizing attitudes. The ETH is a theory; the ancient
hominid civilization is a theory. Your righteousness is showing.

>>>There is no such thing as a TR-3b.

>>Maybe so but the craft know as the TR-3b looks like the triangle
>>shaped craft seen over Phoenix which I believe was human

>250,000 atmospheres, eh? That's 8 million 250,000 pounds per
>square inc. First show me a pump capable of producing that
>doesn't weigh in at 3-4 or 5 hundred tons and then the material
>capable of containing that pressure. Ticking timebombs.

>The writer of that article throws a lot of numbers around,
>technical terms, words [naturally plasma makes an appearence]
>that don't make sense. And the craft even rotates! Why?
>Aerodynamics is out the window at this point-why would the thing
>have to spin like a frisbee? So the writer could sound

I agree that there are problems with this article, but Ed Fouche
wrote about the TR-3b before Phoenix and then this very similar
machine appeared to many. Whatever was seen that night, and I
believe the descriptions and artists rendition, I don't think it
was from another planet. My paranoia jumps into high gear
whenever these triangle sighting occur. I was involved in the
northern California sighting about two years ago. It seemed
staged and meant to draw attention to itself.

>It's great to have faith in your country's technology Ed, but
>you don't have anything like what's been showing up and does
>what they do. Using that tired old saw about top secret military
>aircraft is just pronouncement without one iota [or aircraft] of
>proof to back it up. Remember, people have been using that same
>top secret technology ploy to explain away UFOs since 1947 but
>none of it has even shown up.

I have zero faith in any technology. It's a tool and tools break
and malfunction. But I fear the TR3b is a red herring intended
to somehow misdirect our investigations.


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