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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Jul > Jul 30

Re: Why The Cover-Up?

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:26:33 -0300
Archived: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:51:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Why The Cover-Up?

>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:23:47 -0700
>Subject: Re: Why The Cover-Up?

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:44:27 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Why The Cover-Up?

>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:18:24 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Why The Cover-Up?


>>Think about this Ed; if you have conquered space what else have
>>you got to do but explore? We have naturalists on this planet
>>who will happily spend their whole lives in pursuit of one type
>>of butterfly. I'd bet the same applies for some superexploration
>>teams that live and die in space having never seen their home
>>planet which perhaps has long since ceased to exist.

>The above is simply speculation on your part. I do not believe,
>nor is there any evidence, that humans or any other life form,
>have or will ever freely explore the universe and fly from star
>to star.

But you are postulating that our Earth brethern have done just that.
I am going no further with this sillyness, Ed because whatever
argument you use can be turned back against your own theory. For
everysentence you use montremes in i can say but there is no
evidence of that, that it is speculation on your part. Your
theory is faith based, without a shred of evidence to support it
and which you will support to the end evan as you have supported
the validity of the AA despite being told by the very creator of
same that it is a hoax.

I think you and others who have faith in the ETH have
>invented a nice bedtime story. But science says it won't fly.

Science doesn't say any such thing. You are saying that and your
credibility is quite low.

>The speed and energy requirements are the main stumbling blocks,
>but desire is also necessary. An underlying assumption to such
>futuristic thinking is that human population will continue to
>grow and that there will be new technology fueled by this
>growth. That's not necessarily a correct assumption. It might
>happen, but there could be much to interrupt our progress.

>If you submitted the above narrative to a panel of scientists,
>would they agree? I don't mind if you believe this; I did for
>many years. But don't treat me like the community idiot because
>I've lost faith;

Oh, I don't think you have lost faith, your egocentric view of
the Earth as the only bastion of life in a universe is strongly
linked to an older faith basedidea, religion.

>I don't believe this dogma any longer. Can't
>you understand that? It happened in a rush of insight. I had
>just viewed the Alien Autopsy footage several times and was
>focusing on the brain removal when it really hit me. This is a
>flesh and blood creature! Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot!!

So you watched a hoaxed film of a plastic dummy having its sheep
brain removed and now you are convinced of your theory.
You can't even come to grips with the faked AA film and you are
trying convince me and others that we are way off base in the
possibility of the ETH?
>Once you've had a life changing experience, your life changes. I
>began to question all that I had thought about and learned
>during my previous quest to understand UFO.
>>>Why shouldn't we
>>>assume the same for our visitors? I think we'll find that travel
>>>in the universe is severely limited by the distances involved
>>>and light speed will be necessary for travel within a realistic
>>>timeframe. Also the energy requirements for FTL are prohibitive.
>>>The laws of physics indicate that getting even a small amount of
>>>matter to light speed will require all the energy in the
>>The universe is 14.7 billion years old, that's plenty of time for
>>many super civilizations to have come and even gone.
>The earth is five billion years old and life has been here
>for four and a half billion years. That's more than enough time
>for many civilizations to have come and gone, too. Why should
>we be the only one? Do you think humans are special?

Frankly, yes I do. We are the only ones there is proof of. There
have definitly been different civilizations that rose and fell
over the last 10,000 years and I suspect 2 or 3 times that length
of time if not more, but they were still human civilizations.

>>What you seem not to understand is that we can get to sublight
>>speeds and even though the rule still applies it's the species
>>outside the craft that have to put up with the tremendous
>>problems of time-NOT the travelers.

>There's not a reason to believe that we can even reach sublight
>speeds or that we would be motivated to spend the time and
>effort to do so. But why not be specific? Give a realistic
>example of how all this might work.

It's called constant acceleration, Ed. Look it up. Stan Friedman
worked on nuclear technology rockets [back in the late 60s early
70s] which I believe he said were 10,000 times more powerful
than the Saturn rocket. Put that technology into space and then
power up at the rate of one constant G of acceleration and you
will eventually get to close to the speed of light.

>>Do you seriously think that some species [and I mean hundreds or
>>thousands of different types of species] that's had technology
>>for millions of years can't get by a little thing like the speed
>>of light.

>First of all there is not a grain of evidence

You use that unsuppotable line over and over Ed. There is not a
grain of evidence to validate the AA film either but you embrace
it wholeheartedly in your headlong rush to incredibility. that
any species

>can survive their own technology for more than a few hundred
>years. We've been successful for a little over one hundred years
>and it's a toss up whether we'll make it for another hundred.

Yeah that's just more second rate sci-fi nonsense. It's a
plotline used over and over , Ed, like the Earthlings are too
dangerouse to let into space nonsense.

>I'm not saying we won't, but it's far from a done deal.

Time will tell.

>>>That's too high a price to pay just to give a few rectal exams

>>Answered above.

>No it wasn't.

Read it again and you will see how it probably worked, not the
silly one little craft theory flying from one planet 50 light
years away to check up on us.

>>>to dangerous animals on a distant and inhospitable planet.

>>There's nothing inhospitable about Earth unless you are a
>>species that breaths Sulphuric acid.

>Microbes, snakes, tigers, red ants, and humans. We are very
>dangerous and armed and are not about to let anyone mess with us
>too long: "there is some shit I will not eat" (ee cummings)

A technology that has spread through the cosmos is not going to
have trouble with our little pop-guns and don't seem to.

>>And we would be no more
>>dangerous than other species that have just recently lumbered
>>into space.

>Evidence please. Who else do you know lumbering out there.

>>That's old sci-fi crap-the notion that other
>>intelligent species evolved without killing one another.
>>Dolphins are looked apon as a benign mammal but they still eat
>>other species to survive as do whales and and everything else on
>>this planet.

>I don't recall saying anything about this. Do you have me
>confused with another Ed.

It's not all about you, Ed.

>>>>Why after co-existing with us for millions of years are these
>>>>"critters" so interested in our bowels and sexual reproductive
>>>>systems? Where is their whole [social, maunufacturing, housing,
>>>>economic based] infrastructure.

>>>I don't know why they are interested in us. I think they have
>>>always interacted with humans in some way. I mostly agree with
>>>Fort: "we are being farmed!"

>>I don't. man's need-usually for some religious reason, to whip
>>himself, atone for being alive-and enjoying it. I think "they"
>>came, they saw and hung around to see how we are making out,
>>watching us evolve like they watched thousands of other species
>>evolve. Some species made it into space, some didn't. Doesn't
>>matter, they would still be worth studying.

>I think this is dreamland. And you think I'm unscientific.

Oh I know you are unscientific.

>might be correct, and you have every right to your opinion and

Uh-uh, not faith with me. That's a slippery slope like religion.
One shred of evidence to deny the numbers and the probability of
other life and intelligent life in our galaxy and the universe
beond and I'm out of there. I don't hang onto anything on faith.
I don't revere.

>but where is your evidence for this belief. Why do you
>believe this?

Believe what, probabilities? The odds? I don't believe it, I
don't have a ETH bible, I just can't help thinking that the odds
are in the favor of other life in the universe

>>>Since I think the ancient hominid civilization is at least one
>>>hundred million years old, they've had time to live wherever
>>>they wish, maybe Mars or the back side of the moon or under the
>>>oceans or underground or in super mother ships.

Yeah, why? I asked this before but you just said, I don't know
why they do this, they just do. They still like to stick probs
up anuses after watching us grow over the last 3-10 million
years but you don't know why. Some lkind of character flaw with
our Earth grown brothers?

>>I'll give you some ETI doing this save the underground bases
>>theory. The oceans may be just a safe haven between operations
>>or observations. But cripes these are one generous species who
>>just got the hell out of the way so we could have all of the
>>good real estate.

>They may have learned something during the last one hundred
>million years and decided it was safer somewhere else and to
>rent it to us for a yet-to-be-determined fee.

That's pretty weak, Ed.

>>>I don't know
>>>about their infrastructure, but if they employ nanotechnology,
>>>then it could be very self-sufficient. We're not far from that
>>>goal ourselves. Their population could be quite small (less than
>>>a million) and easily hidden. It may be in decline. I just don't
>>>have answers for these questions.

>>If you don't have answers then how can you be so positive that
>>they exist. Are you taking it on faith?

>I have a belief in my own theories but I'm not 100% sure. I'm
>just proposing a hypothesis that UFO are piloted by creatures
>from an ancient civilization and that the evolutionary mechanism
>was convergent evolution.

>I pointed out that there was plenty of time for this to happen
>and evidence would not be apparent or obvious.

>I'm not making a declaration although I would bet on it if I had
>the chance. But I don't have any way to know the above answers,
>any more than you have sure proof that your speculations are
>correct regarding the ETH.

>You have an hypothesis and I have one too. But I haven't implied
>that yours is something from grade school musings, or that those
>who support your faith are nitwits or numbskulls. I know you're
>all fine chaps, with hearts of gold, so let's cut the insults
>and patronizing attitudes. The ETH is a theory; the ancient
>hominid civilization is a theory. Your righteousness is showing.

>>>>There is no such thing as a TR-3b.

>>>Maybe so but the craft know as the TR-3b looks like the triangle
>>>shaped craft seen over Phoenix which I believe was human

>>250,000 atmospheres, eh? That's 8 million 250,000 pounds per
>>square inc. First show me a pump capable of producing that
>>doesn't weigh in at 3-4 or 5 hundred tons and then the material
>>capable of containing that pressure. Ticking timebombs.

>>The writer of that article throws a lot of numbers around,
>>technical terms, words [naturally plasma makes an appearence]
>>that don't make sense. And the craft even rotates! Why?
>>Aerodynamics is out the window at this point-why would the thing
>>have to spin like a frisbee? So the writer could sound

>I agree that there are problems with this article, but Ed Fouche
>wrote about the TR-3b before Phoenix and then this very similar
>machine appeared to many.

Ed Fouche made up the TR-3b nonsense. There is no existing line
of technology to support it. And despite the fact that there are
dozens of triangular-shaped aircraft in the world today none of
them is in the one or two mile wide catagory of the Pheonix
claims. You seem pretty ignorant of the descriptions of what
went on at around 8pm that evening and even more so about
aviation technology. And supporting the TR-3b nonsense also
shows your ignorance of the air regs governing the airspace and
the air traffic control system over and surrounding Phoenix [Sky
Harbor] as well which apparently, you think, can be violated at
will by the US Air Force regardless of how many flights are
placed in harms way.

>Whatever was seen that night, and I
>believe the descriptions and artists rendition, I don't think it
>was from another planet. My paranoia jumps into high gear
>whenever these triangle sighting occur. I was involved in the
>northern California sighting about two years ago. It seemed
>staged and meant to draw attention to itself.

By whom, your reptilian, bipedal creatures from Earth's past?

>>It's great to have faith in your country's technology Ed, but
>>you don't have anything like what's been showing up and does
>>what they do. Using that tired old saw about top secret military
>>aircraft is just pronouncement without one iota [or aircraft] of
>>proof to back it up. Remember, people have been using that same
>>top secret technology ploy to explain away UFOs since 1947 but
>>none of it has even shown up.

>I have zero faith in any technology.

Yeah remember that the next time you go to the hospital.

>It's a tool and tools break
>and malfunction. But I fear the TR3b is a red herring intended
>to somehow misdirect our investigations.

There's your flawed belief system kicking in again Ed. Ed Fouche
said there was a TR-3b and you swallowed it hook, line and
sinker... just like the AA hoax. You use it like it's fact.

Don Ledger

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