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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Mar > Mar 6

Re: MUFON On Kinross & F-89 'Find' - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:17:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:08:56 -0500
Subject: Re: MUFON On Kinross & F-89 'Find' - Ledger

>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 23:25:38 EST
>Subject: Re: MUFON On Kinross & F-89 'Find'

>>Source: BJ Booth's UFO Casebook Site


>>March 3rd, 2007

>>Update On The 1953 Kinross UFO Event

>>James Carrion, MUFON International Director to B J Booth

>>The recent claim by the 'Great Lakes Dive Company' (GLDC) to
>>have found the U.S. Air Force F89C Scorpion Jet that disappeared
>>in 1953 over Lake Superior while in pursuit of a UFO, created
>>quite a stir of excitement in the UFO community, as reported
>>last month in the Journal. Unfortunately, based on an in-depth
>>investigation conducted by MUFON investigators, Great Lakes
>>Dive's claims cannot be substantiated.


>The bottom line is this appears to be an absolute scam that has
>been played on the UFO community.

>These scams seem to work to an extent. Note below I am not
>talking about legit witnesses and legit stories as there is alot
>of those.

>What we generally see is someone come forward and foist some
>incredible UFO-related story. Naturally some people in the UFO
>community are breathlessly waiting to be the first to put the
>story out over the radio, internet and other means. Naturally
>these same people are so eager to unload the story, that they
>don't bother to do things like fact checking, verification of
>people and their claimed back grounds etc etc.

>Naturally when the story and or the person can't be verified,
>these same people never step up to the plate, say that it
>appears that they got duped swindled or whatever and they
>apologize for passing around seemingly bogus information.
>Instead they either stonewall it and never talk about it again,
>or they rationalize everything away by claiming that even though
>nothing can be verified, that in and of itself is proof that the
>so called evil government was covering something up.

>Thus we see how the cycle works in the UFO community.

Hi Robert,

Myself and Frank Warren exchanged quite a few emails about this
claim. I kept getting shot down on this list when I said it
didn't look like a F-89C but the nose of a P-51 though when I
received better resolution "photos" from a different angle the
tail appeared to be that of a T-tail F-89.

I emailed 6 different dive and salvage companies in that region
and no one had heard of the Great Lakes Dive Company which I
thought indicative of some fraudulant claims by the GLDC since
diving companies are close knit from my experience. The divers
move around and might work for two or three over a period of
months since much of the work is seasonal.

I questioned the side-scan sonar equipment which GLDC was
claiming to be state of the art but which in fact-according to
professionals-was of Canadian Tire quality [Wal-Mart for you

I checked around re the responsibility for the rights -
archeologically and financially - to wrecks on the bottom with
some of my diver friends while Frank Warren contacted the deputy
minister in Ontario to see what the law was concerning salvage.

Jimenez had the wrong name and level of government and the wrong
minister in his answers to various inquiries. It's different in
each affected province, BTW with only Nova Scotia having strict
laws regarding salvage. There are thousands of wrecks off this

I'd stated that the United States would retain their original
salvage rights over the F-89 not only for the artifacts but
because it's a military gravesite. I might be wrong about this
but some of the work Frank Warren was doing on the GLDC hoax
might have been associated with MUFON's investigation.

Either way James Carrion was arriving at some of the same
sources and conclusions but provided a heck of a lot of
additional detail.

It floors me as to what kind of sick thrill these malcontents
get out of these hoaxes particularly in this case where there is
family involved which wants answers and closure to a mystery
that goes back nearly 54 years.

Because detail doesn't show up on this or other lists does not
mean that nothing is being done.



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