From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.ufobras.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:28:54 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:33:04 -0400 Subject: Interview With Clas Svahn UFO Sweden Chair Milton Frank, Brazilian Ufology Center President Interviews Clas Svahn, UFO Sweden Chair 1 - Why did you become an UFO researcher? Have you ever seen an UFO? If so, how was your experience? I became an UFO researcher in 1974 at the age of 16 after I had read books and articles on the subject for two or three years. I have never been a "believer" in the sense that I have had any preconceived ideas about the origin of the UFO phenomenon =96 or phenol as I see it today. I have always wondered what lies behind the strange tales and observations coming from ordinary people. My main drive has always been to find an answer to the observations, to find out what did really happen. Since I am an amateur astronomer for as long as I have been an ufologist I have spent thousand of hours under the wonderful night sky. During these nights I have seen some odd things that are hard to explain. But the one observation that really made a lasting impression on me, and my wife who was with me, happened during a car drive back from a meeting with friends in the north part of the Stockholm area. It was November 5th 1995 around one o'clock in the morning. As we passed a bus stop not far from our house we both saw two men standing there looking up, one of them pointing to the sky. Since I was driving the car I asked my wife to lean forward to see if she could get a glimpse of whatever had caught the two mens attention. But all she could see was stars; it was a crystal clear night. We continued our drive back and after a couple of hundred meters I parked the car on our driveway and we both went outside. Since we were curious of what the men had seen we stayed beside the car for a while before entering our house looking in the direction were the men had been looking, vaguely hoping to see what had caught their attention. I think we stood there, my wife a little behind me, for one minute or so just looking at the black sky that was filled with stars. But suddenly we both saw something coming flying out of the darkness. It was three objects, all illuminated, that came from nowhere, not from the horizon but from a point 35 degrees up in the sky, a little to the left of Castor and Pollux. The objects were rather large and looked like crosses with a white light emanating from them. They were flying side by side as if they were glued together on an invisible stick, but you could see the darkness separating them. My first thought was that they were birds, illuminated by the city lights and I was waiting for one of them to move it swings. But that never happened. They were rigid and not moving anything. They flew over us and over our house and I had to run around the corner to see them vanish over my neighbours house and into the darkness. Both me and my wife saw this clearly and being the chairman of UFO-Sweden I told her that we should go inside and fill out a form each without speaking to each other. Which we did. The next day I assigned a field researcher to investigate our observation but the objects were never identified. 2 - Please, explain to us what UFO-Sweden is? What are the main UFO cases UFO-Sweden has been researching all those years? What conclusions did you get? UFO-Sweden is a nation wide organisation founded in 1970. We have twenty local groups around the country and around 80 field investigators. The investigations are coordinated by a report central situated in Sundsvall. Since more than 30 years we are helding field trainee courses to educate our researchers. It is hard to go into any particular cases that we have investigated since there are so many. Every year more than 300 persons report sightings of alleged UFOs, most of them report their sighting directly on our web site www.ufo.se where it goes into our database. The international most well known case is of course the Ghost Rockets from 1946, a UFO wave before Kenneth Arnold and the first flying saucer reports. Here I and Anders Liljegren (AFU) have done both archives research and interviews with persons involved. For us the Ghost Rockets are still a mystery. More than 1.000 reports were filed to the Swedish military during that year, many of them being misinterpretations of natural objects but others still unidentified. The most interesting cases are the ones involving objects crashing into lakes. I have investigated many such reports myself. 3 - You've been writing a couple of books like "The UFO mystery", Parthenon 1998" , "The Domsten case - a Swedish close encounter in 1958", AFU 1989, "The encounter in the clearing", NTB Parthenon, 1995, "Facts about UFOs", Parthenon 1998, "UFO - encounter with the unknown", Semic 2000, and others. Are they a result from yours researches? How was the experience to write all those books? Can we find it in Portuguese? Yes, the books are a result of my research and I have written several other books as well. The latest was published in September last year ("The Unknown") and has sold in 17.000 copies which is very good by Swedish standards. As far as I now they have not been translated into Portuguese. It is hard work to write books but since I am a journalist by profession I have no trouble when it comes to the writing. The hardest thing during the process of making a book is to research the facts so that you know that what you publish is correct so that your readers could trust you. I always try to publish facts and research done by myself, I do not like people who write books from other persons work. My readers must know that when they get a book from my hand it is something unique, something that they could not have read anywhere else. 4 - What is the most important UFO case you've been involved with? Does it give you a hard time? Was it difficult to research? Besides the Ghost Rockets I think that must be the Gosta Carlsson case from 1946 (the same year as the Ghost Rockets). A full report of that investigation can be read in my book "Motet i glantan" ("The encounter in the clearing", only published in Swedish I am afraid). In short Mr Carlsson was out walking along a road outside his hometown of Angelholm on the evening of May 18th 1946. After observing a strange light coming out of an area to the left of him he went into the woods to see if there was a fire. After a couple of hundred meters he found himself in front of a large landed craft, very much looking like a saucer with a large antenna from were a bright light was pouring down engulfing the object which seemed to be protected inside the glow. On the hull several men were working trying to repair a window. A woman came out from the inside of the craft throwing out some things. Gosta Carlsson himself tried to walk closer but was stopped by a sentinel standing outside the glow. Gosta then decided to walk down to the sea and later to sneak up another way, from behind, to see if he could manage to get nearer without the guard seeing him. But before he was able to do that the craft started to raise and he could see it hover over the tree tops for a while as the antenna was sliding down inside the hull and the craft went of with a tremendous speed. The next morning he went back to the place of the landing and found markings on the ground and several objects left by the crew; two plastic looking cups with liquid, a golden ring and a burnt staff of crystal. All this he brought with him back home. The same night, in bed, he experienced a most vivid "dream" were he was taken aboard the craft and met the commander. The commander informed him that he had decide to land in the clearing because of an accident aboard that had killed several of the crew and damaging a window. After repairing the craft they lifted and buried the dead crew on an asteroid. The experiences continued for several years and in the mid 80's I started to investigate the case which 1995 resulted in a book. My conclusion is that Gosta Carlsson did experience much of his story not in the physical world but within himself. On the site he erected a monument of the craft and it is now the number one tourist attraction. 5 - After all these year researching, what is your best definition to the UFO phenomenon? I do not want to give just one definition since UFO encompasses so many different phenomena. During my more than 30 years investigating them I have learned much about the human mind and of its limitations when it comes to interpret and objectively register the world around. I should say that the UFO enigma consists of not one phenomenon but many phenomena. It is important to have in mind that UFO just stands for an object that after a careful and thorough investigation still has defied identification. UFOs are by definition an unknown =96 but not unexplainable =96 phenomena. To solve that riddle is one of the most intriguing challenges a person can devote his time to. 6 - Have you ever thought that UFO phenomenon could not be from the space? How do you feel dealing with UFO phenomenon? Sure, the option that UFOs are not aliens visiting us is something I have always considered. You could say that the ET solution never has been my main theory. Instead I try to look at the UFO enigma without any prejudices and during the more than 30 years of investigations I have seen to many reports that indicates other answers to the At this moment we have almost 32.500 members. Our members is people who loves to talk about UFO, people who loves to discuss about UFO and people who loves to learn about Ufology. What would you like to say to them? question too settle for just one solution. Instead I urge anyone researching UFOs to leave many doors open since there will be more than one answer. What I mean is a little complicated: First, many of the observations and reports can be attributed to mistakes made by humans. Even though some may think that pilots and policemen are better and more reliable witnesses than the average person my studies have shown that they make the same mistakes and misinterpretations as anyone else. Second, a large part of the reports coming in to UFO organisations around the world are of mundane objects seen under unusual circumstances. Third, most UFO groups do not have access to experts such as meteorologists, military radar personal, physicists, rocket engineers and others when it comes to investigation and evaluation of reports. This makes it very difficult to rule out the more complicated solutions to seemingly unexplainable observations. Fourth, single witness observations and observations made during a very limited time are not the best cases when it comes to draw any conclusions from the data. All this said, there are several very hard to explain cases in our files, cases that shows that we may deal with something new and not completely understood =96 what we call UFOs. But to say that these unexplained observations therefor should consist of aliens visiting Earth is a leap that, as I see it, can not be substantiated by the data. I always try to look at the reports without having the answer first. You must be open, but also well educated and equipped with a critical mind. To be a skeptic or a believer is hampering your research since both of the two extremes already "knows" what they are looking for. In my opinion a third way, between the two extremes, is the only way to go if we are to get any real solutions and real knowledge about this most interesting topic. 7 - Do you believe in abductions? What is your opinion about abduction's cases? Do you believe in hypnosis to explain abduction's cases? What do you think about it? I do not believe in hypnosis as a tool of getting the truth from alleged abduction witnesses. I fully agree with British ufologist Jenny Randles that hypnosis should be banned altogether from abduction research since it induces information into the witness story and creates a focus for the witness to tell the story in a very specific frame. Hypnosis could very well be the last thing you should consider. As for abductions as a physical event I am not convinced. At the same time I am not an abduction expert since reports of abductions are very rare in Sweden. But I should recommenced everyone trying to investigate abduction reports to look into other explanations than the alien solution as well. 8 - What kind of advices would you give to an ufologist? What would you say to new UFO researcher that will be going to start to work together with you? I once wrote eleven suggestions for a ufologist. I think they give you the guidelines everyone should consider before starting to investigate UFOs. They may seem a little harsh but nevertheless they are the only way to get to the core of the phenomena. If they are followed what is left should be the very best cases. Here they are: i. Don't invest your soul in a case. When new facts surfaces that may explain the observation you may not be able to see them. ii. Never get too friendly with a witness. You may well get into a position where you find yourself defending the person instead of the facts. iii. Don't read just UFO books and choose carefully of what you are reading. The solutions to most of the cases you will ever investigate are to be found in other sources. (With the exception of Allan Hendrys "The UFO Handbook" and some other rare items.) iv. Always remember to distinguish between facts and opinions. A persons description of what he or she has experienced is just one of many pieces to build an investigation on - not the answer. v. Never stop looking for new facts. The more facts you have the more likely it is that you will find the answer - the less facts you have the more likely it is you will turn up with a "UFO". vi. Real UFOs are very rare. If you think you have found one you have probably not investigated the case thoroughly enough. vii. Always make your results available to other researchers even if they do not share your views. It happens that other people may be right and you wrong. viii. A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object - an object that has not been identified in spite of a rigorous investigation made by an objective researcher. Never forget that. ix. "Kill your darlings". Always be prepared to give up your favourite ideas when new facts emerges. x. In UFO research there are no authorities, just hard working private investigators with the same flaws and problems as any person, but - hopefully - with more experience and knowledge about a topic that has so many answers. xi. Your task is not to defend UFOs or ufology but to make a job so good that your work does not have to be put in question. 9 - In Brazil right now, we are living an UFO battle between two sides that study UFO phenomenon. This battle has been happening between the spiritual side against the scientific side. Can in your mind Spiritual Ufology lives together with Scientific Ufology? What do you think about it? What do you think about UFO sects? I know many persons inside the spiritual ufology corner and have no problem discussing UFOs with most of them. At the same time one must realize that spiritual ufology does not investigate UFOs but just tend to believe in them =96 as in visitors from outer space. The only way to get any real knowledge is to use the scientific methods. There is a clear and huge gap between looking for knowledge and just believing. On the other hand you must listen to what kind of experiences people have when they "meet aliens" in their dreams or during altered state of consciousness. What they feel and see may be important since we do not know all about the human mind and how it works. Why do people experience encounters with otherworldly beings? Why do they think that some of them are physical entities? We have learnt from folklore that entities of different kinds have been seen and reported for centuries but in a non-alien context. Are they coming from the same source? We do not have the answers to this yet but I am sure that it is important that we keep looking for them. Scientific and spiritual ufology will always be there side by side even though a great wall keeps them apart for the most time. But we must study this spital side of ufology with scientific methods. UFO sects are in many cases bad news. Some of them, as Heaven's Gate (1997) and Order of the Solar Temple (1994) both were convinced that an alien space ship should take their spirits away to another planet before committing suicide or killing each other. The most recent sect, the Raelian movement, is another example of how people can be misled and manipulated by a strong leader how strange and nutty his story may be. 10 - Well, our community is growing a lot here in Brazil and in this moment of the interview I would like you to leave a message to the Brazilian Ufology Center. At this moment we have almost 33,000 members. Our members are people who love to talk about UFOs, people who love to discuss UFOs and people who love to learn about Ufology. 12 - What would you like to say to readers? I would like to thank you for letting me write in this forum. It is important that we share and discuss our different opinions even though we may not always share the same views. This is the very core of an open and democratic society. None of us have the complete picture or the answer to the UFO enigma. But by discussing it we may put another brick in the wall of facts that may eventually bring us some unexpected answers.
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