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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > May > May 12

Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:09:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 08:08:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions - Rudiak

>From: Neil Morris <neil.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:29:06 +0100
>Subject: Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions

>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:50:14 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Just A Few Roswell Questions

>>In the end, all the skeptics have is Bessie B. describing
>>"flower tape", a description she could easily have picked up
>>from elsewhere - the newspaper, her father, etc. Nothing else
>>she describes really matches up with a plausible Mogul or
>>anything else.

>>While we're on the subject of 'flower tape', why is that nobody
>>else mentions 'flower tape' being on the radar target in Gen.
>>Ramey's office? Nobody there ever described any such thing, and
>>better yet, we have multiple, detailed photos of that debris
>>which various people have poured over in high resolution,
>>including the unnamed high level government photo lab the Air
>>Force debunkers had looking at the photos to try to find it.
>>Nobody can find it, just further proof that the radar target in
>>Fort Worth was just a shill for whatever was really recovered.

>I concur with David's above comment that there are _no_ "flower
>pattern" markings to be found anywhere within the Ramey office
>photographs. But add that some patterning on a beam in the
>Newton photograph does closely match his description of beam
>symbols he claimed to have seen on the debris.

>Symbols closely resembling those drawn by Jess Marcel Jnr. can
>be found on the "balloon debris". _But_ neither of these match
>the "flower symbols" as Charles Moore described

>Please see example images here:


Sorry, but all I see is crinkled aluminum foil reflecting back a
camera flash in various ways. "Markings" on sticks look like
torn aluminum foil/paper still stuck to glue beads when the main
sheet of foil paper was torn away. I think markings or symbols
on the sticks are imaginary.

I agree that no tape much less "flower tape" can be seen
anywhere, period The late Karl Pflock tried to claim that the
white strips seen along the edges of some of the big sheets were
the white flower tape of Mogul. Wrong! These were nothing more
than the white paper-backed foil folded over at the edges to
form sheaths for the balsa sticks. So no white tape, just white
paper backing, a normal construction detail for the radar
targets. Another debunking Mogul myth debunked.

For details of the radar target construction, see:


Although I disagree with Neil about the existence of markings,
there are subtle details that I do consider important in the
debate as to where the radar target material came from. For one,
the white paper foil backing backing in the various photos is
perfectly even white, with no staining or discoloration to be
seen anywhere. In other words, it looks like a completely new
radar target, not one that's been dragged through the dirt and
brush and lain in the elements for a month.

Also, when I did a 3-D reconstruction of the sticks and foil, it
added up to exactly one radar target, not the alleged multi-
target Mogul. How could multi-targets come down at the Foster
ranch, Mack Brazel then rolling them all up into a single bundle
(as per his Daily Record story), yet when they are unpacked and
displayed, it all magically adds up to one target, not portions
of one target, portions of another, etc.? Very curious.

There is one caveat to this analysis. I also found maybe two
(maybe three) extra bare sticks in the photos, i.e., sticks with
no fragments of foil/paper still adhering to them. These were
sticks that had never had the foil paper glued to them. What
were those sticks doing there? That had me puzzled for a while
until I understood the details of the target construction. The
targets folded down into flat triangles that could be packed 24
to a box for shipping. I discovered they could only fold down if
two of the edge sticks were removed from the edge sheaths, i.e.
they weren't secured with glue into the sheaths like the other
four edge sticks of the framework. Conversely, when the targets
were unfolded for use, those two sticks were then inserted into
the sheaths. (Again, see construction details at my website,
including an animation of the targets folding down flat.)

Thus, the boxed radar targets consisted of folded down targets
plus the extra edge sticks that were to be inserted afterwards.
So here's what I think happened. They pulled a single, brand new
radar target out of a box. Hence the paper is completely clean.
Then someone grabbed a handful of the extra bare edge sticks out
of the box (not knowing they needed only two to complete the
radar target). Then they busted and tore up the target. (A two-
year old could easily do this.) Voila! A single, clean, busted
up radar target with a few extra sticks on display in Ramey's
office. That economically accounts for what is seen in Ramey's
office; a multitarget, aged Mogul does not. It is also
consistent with the accounts of Marcel and Dubose about a
substituted weather balloon as part of a cover story.

Also Ramey and his minions always referred to the target in the
singular, including weather officer Newton. Newton to this day
insists that it was single target, and although a big Roswell
skeptic, also adds that the target could have come from
anywhere. He's never been convinced it came from Mogul. Indeed,
that's exactly the point. There's nothing in those photos that
indicates the debris came from Mogul.

Debunkers also claim that Ramey would not have had access to a
radar target, they were some strange, exotic beast only used on
Project Mogul. (The late Robert Todd, e.g., tried to push this
bit of nonsense.) In reality, we have quotes from 1947
indicating that they were used at times all over the country by
civilian and military weather services. There were also a number
of radar target crashes reported in the newspapers plus a number
of military debunking demonstrations carried out immediately
after Roswell, including one at Fort Worth AAF, where Ramey
supposedly couldn't get hold of a radar target. So another
debunking myth busted.

Fort Worth radar target demonstration:


Other 1947 military saucer/radar target debunking


Essay on the military's post-Roswell debunking campaign:


Reported 1947 radar target crashes:


Quotes from 1947 about widespread radar target use:


Obviously it wasn't such a big deal getting a hold of a radar
target to substitute for the real Roswell debris. Even if there
were no radar targets at Fort Worth proper on July 8, one could
easily have been flown in within two hours from a number of

David Rudiak

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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