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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > May > May 22

Re: U.S. Department Of Defense On UFOs - Shough

From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:10:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 08:27:30 -0400
Subject: Re: U.S. Department Of Defense On UFOs - Shough

>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 01:46:32 -0300
>Subject: Re: U.S. Department Of Defense On UFOs

>>From: Michael Christol <spachopr.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 09:00:43 -0600
>>Subject: Re: U.S. Department Of Defense On UFOs


>>It is amazing how close the Kenneth Arnold description of the
>>objects he saw, comes to matching the Horton Brothers flying
>>wings designed for Germany during WWII, yet no one, even today
>>wants to consider the possibility that this was what Arnold
>>could have seen.

>Aw Mike, come on. This is another thing that has been gone over
>ad nauseum off and on for the last 10 years on this List.

>Where I come from that has as much credibility as the the B-2
>bomber explaining away supersonic UFOs. It's not supersonic and
>there's a good reason for that, the drag coefficient is too high
>for it to get supersonic. It suffers the same problem as the bi-
>plane fighters of the 1930s, built in drag. They couldn't get
>them to go over about 225 mph because of the built in drag of
>that design.

>The same holds true of the B-2 and the Hortons. To sustain a
>lifting body, like a flying wing, the box cross section of the
>wings has to be so thick it just can't ram itself through the
>air due to compressibility fast enough to exceed the speed of


>It's not the date that matters it's the R&D time leading up to
>the development of these engines. It's just too much of a
>stretch to think that the United States had grabbed a dozen or
>so of these Hortons, which they didn't, developed them, built
>far superior engines. They hadn't done any real research on jets
>and had little expertise, if any, on the technology.

Hi Mike & Don

One can always make that argument that *if* the objects reported
by Arnold *did* strongly resemble the Horten wings in shape (and
I suppose nobody can argue with that - they did), and if there
was some chance that Horten designs might have been flown in the
US in June 1947, then probability favours the conclusion that
Arnold must have misjudged the speed/distance of unfamiliar
aeroforms by a factor 3 or something. But that depends on it
being likely that Horten designs were in use in the US at that

I've often read that there was no US Horten-style program. The
British had the Horten bros and some of their work in the UK in
summer 1945 and tried to get them to cooperate in further
development but they seem to have failed in this. There doesn't
seem to be any evidence that the US got hold of a bunch of
Hortens. But it seems some Horten hardware did go to the US at
this time.

The quote below is from The Horten Flying Wing in World War II:
The History & Development of the Ho 229, by H. P. Dabrowski,
translated from the German by David Johnson. (Schiffer Military
History Vol. 47, ISBN 0-88740-357-3) according to


"Construction of the H IX V3 was nearly complete when the Gotha
Works at Friederichsroda were overrun by troops of the American
3rd Army's VII Corps on April 14, 1945. The aircraft was
assigned the number T2-490 by the Americans. The aircraft's
official RLM designation is uncertain, as it was referred to as
the Ho 229 as well as the Go 229. Also found in the destroyed
and abandoned works were several other prototypes in various
stages of construction, including a two-seat version The V3 was
sent to the United States by ship, along with other captured
aircraft, and finally ended up in the H.H. "Hap" Arnold
collection of the Air Force Technical Museum. The wing aircraft
was to have been brought to flying status at Park Ridge,
Illinois, but budget cuts in the late forties and early fifties
brought these plans to an end. The V3 was handed over to the
present-day National Air and Space Museum (NASM) in Washington

This account doesn't rule out the possibility that some working
versions were constructed and flown before those budget cuts
closed the programme. The problem though is that there is no
sign in any of the once secret documents - which presumably no
one ever imagined might becomn public - that anyone in the US
military was aware of any connection between these designs and
the "flying discs". That doesn't make sense, unless the Horten
work was a "deep black" programme classified away even from AMC
and the USAF Dir of Intel. It's true that Gen Twining did
suggest some such possibility to explain the UFOs in 1947, but
why would a Horten flying wing attract such fantastic security?

Dont forget whilst focusing on the Hortens that Jack Northrop in
the US had been building and demonstrating flying wings since
1929! He was contracted to develop long range flying wing
bombers by the US Army Air Corps in 1941 and the XB-35 first
flew on June 25 1946 - almost exactly a year before the Arnold
sighting. The US poured huge money into this, going 4x over
budget, but still the programme was blighted with problems and
11 production aircraft were left unfinished and unflown when the
design evolved into the YB-49 jet-pwered wing in summer 1948.
But this too had unresolvable problems with stability and proved
hopeless for its designed strike role, so the AF poured another
$88 million into a redesigned reconnaissance version, the YRB-
 49. They ordered 30 of these, but again the thing was a flop
and petered out in 1949. The one flying version was finally
airborne in 1950 and flown as far as its graveyard in

If there was a secret underground programme of successful jet
Hortens flying in numbers before June 1947 then a heck of a lot
of money and effort was wasted om Northrop.



Martin Shough

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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