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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Nov > Nov 10

Phoenix March 13 2007?? [was: Larry King Live...]

From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:47:23 -0000
Archived: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:07:05 -0500
Subject: Phoenix March 13 2007?? [was: Larry King Live...]

>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:48:08 -0500
>Subject: Re: Larry King Live UFOs Now Friday Night

>The term "Phoenix Lights" has become a common reference to all
>the phenomena seen that night (March 13, 1997). However, the
>'lights' which are generally referred to by the media were
>60-80 miles southwest of Phoenix and seen by only 3 people who
>videotaped them at about 10 PM.

>Of more importance was the triangle UFO that flew right over
>Phoenix at about 8:30 PM This is what Symington saw.

Thanks for once again making this distinction clear between the
videotaped lights and the earlier reports. As I'm not very well
informed on this case I wonder if you could answer a couple of

It may be because some proponents of the event themselves seem to
conflate the videotaped lights with the 8:30 event that I find
I'd like to be clearer in my own mind about how certain this
distinction is.

From your own investigations, is there a clearly defined
clustering of times around 8:30 in _original_ reports recorded as
having been submitted that night or within the next day or so?

The reason I ask is this.

From http://phoenix.about.com/cs/weather/qt/timezone.htm :

"Arizona does not observe Daylight Saving Time. This means that
in Arizona we never change our clocks like most of the rest of
the country does. On the first Sunday in November (starting in
2007), when everyone else "falls back" or sets their clock back
one hour, we do not. From that first Sunday in November through
the second Sunday in March we are one hour ahead of those states
on Pacific Time, like California and Nevada; one hour behind
states in the Central Time zone, such as Texas and Illinois; and
only two hours behind those states on Eastern Time, such as New
York and Florida."

The lights over the Estrellas now identified as flares are said
to have been seen between about 9:30 to 10:00 PM (according to
Peter Davenports's summaries and others). I've seen reports
apparently associated with the earlier cluster that are timed as
late as 9:00PM or later, some prior to 8:30. So in very broad
terms there looks to be about an hour between these events.

March 13 1997 was a Thursday, so the second Sunday in March when
the Phoenix clocks on MST effectively fell 1 hour behind
national DST must have been 16th March, only 3 days after the
UFO sightings. I imagine many of the reports were collected
during later days and weeks. Has this been looked into? Can we
be sure that retrospective verbal reports logged by ufologists
during later days as having occurred at around an hour earlier
than the flare drop were not confused by the time change (or
even that the timers on the videos were not showing DST) ?

(A similar confusion appears possibly to have occurred in the
March 1993 "RAF Cosford" case in the UK, where a number of
reports of what reason suggests was probably the Cosmos booster
re-entry were logged with times differing by an hour or even
more, apparently because of the change from GMT to BST two days

Is it at all concerning, do you think, that the identifiable
10:00 PM flare drop was (you tell us) witnessed by only 3 people
(or groups) all of whom managed to film it; whereas the earlier
UFO lights are said to have been witnessed by a great many
people - hundreds, thousands are claimed - none of whom seems to
have filmed anything? Or perhaps I'm not aware of them. But if
someone did, why are _those_ videos of triangles flying overhead
not on YouTube instead of the flares? Are they available

>I have been informed that the view southwestward from his house
>where he was when he saw the triangle view of the "lights" would
>have made it impossible for him to see the "lights" at 10 PM.

This is the sort of thing I'd like to know more about. Is there
a definitive study you could recommend that goes into lines of
sight and other issues in sufficient detail to make a cast iron
case for a distinct 8:30 UFO (or flap of multiple UFOs)?


Martin Shough

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



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