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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Nov > Nov 21

Re: Pilots & UAP

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:22:51 +0000
Archived: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:00:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Pilots & UAP

Hello Don,

>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:38:14 -0400
>Subject: Re: Pilots & UAP

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:22:39 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Pilots & UAP

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:17:43 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Pilots & UAP


>>Just to respond to your earlier post first where you wrote:

>>"Same as what?"

>>My point was that altitude, speed, and attitude are not quite
>>the same as angular size, relative elevation/depression, and
>>vertical motion.

>I don't think you know what you are talking about here, Joe. You
>are discarding info out-of-hand because of some misperception on
>your part.

>Best thing to do is spend 5,000 pounds getting your license then
>spend thousands more acquiring an aircraft then thousands more
>on top of that getting a couple of thousand hours in the air,
>then you can offer an opinion; otherwise you are just
>spouting-off about something you know nothing about.

If as appears to be the case, you are suggesting that altitude,
speed, and attitude are the same as angular size, relative
elevation/depression, and vertical motion, then I suggest that
you have wasted any money that you have spent on training to be
a pilot.


>>No disagreement when it comes to conventional aircraft, though I
>>don't think that was very clear in your original post, I thought
>>you were writing about UFOs.

>An unknown craft is a UFO. UFO for those who keep forgetting
>means unidentified flying object-not alien space craft.

Now you're getting me confused - earlier you wrote:

"A pilot might not know what he saw when reporting a UFO
[anymore than anyone else does] but the pilot will tell you what
it was doing, where it was coming from, altitude, attitude,
speed, direction, behavior, what the weather was at the time,
the sky conditions, angle of descent or ascent, position with
reference the pilot's aircraft, threat to that aircraft and the
time usually to the minute."

Apparently in relation to UFOs. When I queried this, you then

"Experience is the answer. I'm talking about conventional

Yet now you say you _were_ talking about UFOs - make your mind
up cap'n, Klingons on the starboard bow!

>>I would just raise your use of the term "unknown craft" above -
>>I don't think that really applies to Ray Bowyer's report for
>>example, which doesn't suggest a craft though it could still
>>represent an aviation hazard. I think that is an important
>>distinction to make.

>Ray Bowyers stepped up. He and the other pilot reported
>something truly anomalous after discounting the possibilities in
>their own minds of this being conventional.

>Let's face it Bowyers has a much better handle on what does and
>doesn't fly in our skies and has earned the right to report
>without fear of ridicule about what he saw in the sky.

No dispute there.

>The fact that he was happy to get on the ground after seeing
>these things should tell you something.

Yep - it tells me he doesn't like sharing airspace with something
he can't identify. Does it tell you something different?

>The second pilot steadfastly refuses to talk further about it -
>probably because of the nonsense that comes from the press and
>their inexperienced debunking supporters; or it struck him on a
>level he would rather not go to.

Or probably because he doesn't want to take the risk of being
associated with "UFO cranks" who perceive anything unusual in the
air as a "craft".

>Bowyers report suggests a craft to me - an unknown craft, or UFO.

Why? There's no apparent structure, it wasn't moving in any
obviously controlled manner. What convinces you that it was a

>Otherwise you are trying to make this out as some unknown
>natural phenomenon. That I think is baloney.

I'm not trying to make it into anything - it's you that's making
into a craft.



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