UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Oct > Oct 6

Re: Believers Turn Into Sceptics After Conference

From: John Velez <jvelez49.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 04:08:04 -0400
Archived: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:10:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Believers Turn Into Sceptics After Conference


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn06.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 07:56:23 +1000
>Subject: Believers Turn Into Sceptics After Conference

>Source: The Rotorua Daily Post - Wellington, New Zealand

>http://tinyurl.com/37jhlu

>03.10.2007

>Believers Turn Into Sceptics After Conference
>By Matthew Martin

>Even the true believers at a UFO conference in Rotorua were
>sceptical after a keynote speaker's presentation.

>Delegates at the UFOCUS New Zealand conference were less than
>impressed with American podiatrist Dr Roger Leir, who claims to
>have surgically removed alien implants from humans.

>Conference organisers are defending him, saying he is "highly
>credible", but delegates told the Daily Post they were not
>convinced by his presentation.

>It included video footage showing the supposed removal of an
>implant from a subject's toe.

>When the video reached the point where the implant was being
>removed, the camera zoomed in and out and the video faded to
>black.

>One delegate said Dr Leir's information was overly technical and
>his video finished before any details could be seen, leaving him
>questioning the doctor's motives.

>Dr Leir, who claims to have removed 13 extra-terrestrial
>implants from human subjects, also dodged media requests for
>interviews.

>He initially agreed to be interviewed and photographed but
>later, through his agent, declined all interviews.

>Conference organiser and UFOCUS New Zealand co-ordinator Suzanne
>Hansen, from Tauranga, said Dr Leir was highly credible and had
>tailored his speech for a sceptical New Zealand audience.

>Mrs Hansen said she could be partly blamed for Dr Leir's highly
>analytical presentation.

>"I told him that New Zealand audiences were highly sceptical and
>he dropped a lot of his video footage in favour of a more
>scientific presentation.

>"It's a shame people did not get to see a lot of the excellent
>footage that I have seen."

>Dr Leir's travel expenses were covered by UFOCUS New Zealand but
>she said he had not asked for a speaker's fee "or perks of any
>kind".

>Mrs Hansen declined to comment about media disruptions at the
>conference although the Daily Post witnessed a film crew being
>removed from the Rotorua Convention Centre on Saturday. A Daily
>Post photographer was also told to leave.

>Mrs Hansen said overall feedback from the conference was
>extremely positive.

>Dr Leir is the author of four books on alien implants and
>abductions and is raising funds for a feature-length movie
>entitled Earth's Original Sin, based on his alien abduction
>research.

>He said his last implant surgery took place in September last
>year.

>In his presentation Dr Leir likened sceptics to psychics.

>"They [sceptics] must be psychics because they come to
>conclusions before looking at any of the evidence."

>-----

Hi Diane, All,

I have no comment about Dr. Lier's presentation, I was not
there.

If I may, I would like to make a few comments about Dr. Lier and
his 'work' now that the subject has been broached.

The reason I am writing at all is because of the statement
regarding Dr. Lier's most recent surgical expedition, according
to your post, just last year.

Almost a decade ago EBK published a series of posts I composed
regarding Dr. Lier's repeated surgical procedures on
'abductees' - search the UFO UpDates Archive.

In light of his recent exploits I think it's appropriate to
restate some serious questions and concerns I have had about all
the 'elective surgery' he performs on abductees.

By the late 90's Dr. Lier had collected over a dozen alleged
'implants'. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was
when Dr. Lier attempted to recruit yet more 'volunteers' for
surgery from the abductee community via this List and other
venues. It raised a red flag for me at the time. I asked him
then, and I ask again now:

How many people need to be cut? How many 'objects' need to be
recovered before he has enough to conduct a detailed - and most
importantly, _independent_ study, of the surgically recovered
material? Five? Twenty? A thousand?

It's all moot anyway as he never bothered to maintain proper
'chain of custody' when an object was recovered. Any thoughtful
research person would have valid questions and concerns in that
regard. It could potentially invalidate any subsequent findings
- right out of the box. Who knows who has handled them or
tampered with them since removal?

Dr. Lier promised the results of "independent studies" years
ago. None have ever been conducted or delivered to a long
waiting public. As far as I know, formal, professional Papers
about his findings/results have never been submitted or
published by the good doctor in_any_ peer review journals. He
does however seem more than willing to fly - for free - from the
US to New Zeealand in order to preach to the choir at a UFO
convention. Hardly 'noble' much less, 'scientific'.

Other than a cursory study conducted by privately-owned NIDS,
who could easily have been accused of conflict of interest based
on the fact that the millionaire who owned NIDS, Robert Bigelow,
was also funding the "implant recovery" efforts of Dr. Lier and
his then completely strange partner, 'alien hunter', Derrel Sims.
Any results produced under such incestuous conditions wouldn't
be worthy of serious consideration.

Long-time List members will recall how the Spooky Duke, aka:
Peter Brookesmith, coined the moniker, "Nemesis of Mondoz" for
Mr. Sims. At the time, Sims claimed to be engaged in mortal
combat with a Grey alien named, "Mondoz". <LOL>

Bottom line: after all these many years, the results of an
analysis of the surgically recovered objects by an independent
agency has not been forthcoming. Nor have any papers with
scientific evidence or results ever been published in a peer
review journal by Dr. Lier. What the hell is he waiting for?

Yet, he is apparently _still_ cutting abductees.

"Conference organiser and UFOCUS New Zealand co-ordinator
Suzanne Hansen" generously attempted to defend Dr. Lier's
integrity by commenting on how he passed on speaker fees and
other "perks". With all due respect, if I may inquire, what's
the price of a round-trip ticket from the US to Australia going
for these days?

I would imagine it's not cheap. A free trip to NZ is, in spite
of the minimizing, is a _whale_ of a compensation just for
giving a talk or two. Did the good doctor have to pay for his
room? Or some of his own meals? If not, then he was certainly and
royally compensated for his appearance.

Don't get me wrong, Dr. Lier, or anyone else, is allowed to make
$$s. I just want to point out that his appearance in New Zealand
was not exactly the magnanimous gesture you may think it to be.

He was _very_well_ paid!

Just wondering...

Is there some medical oversight board in California that is
responsible for checking on the _necessity_ of elective
surgeries performed by its members?

If I hear of one more abductee being cut by this foot doctor,
I'll lose my lunch.

Nothing personal in this Suzanne Hansen. Dr. Lier (along with
several other quacks) is just a ufological sore-spot with me. I
simply can't believe I'm still hearing names like; Leir, Greer,
Hoagland, Carpenter, and several others as still being 'active'
in ufological circles.

Wake up, People! WAKE UP!!!


Peace, warmest regards,

John Velez




Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/


[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp


Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com