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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Oct > Oct 25

Re: Roswell The Nazi Connection

From: Paul Kimball <TheRobieShark.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:28:47 EDT
Archived: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 06:43:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell The Nazi Connection

>From: Paul Kimball <TheRobieShark.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:07:09 EDT
>Subject: Re: Roswell The Nazi Connection


>Of course, none of this really has anything to do with UFOs,
>does it?

While the Nazi UFOs in the Antarctic stuff is rubbish, without a
shred of historical evidence to back it up, it should be noted
that the claims of Nazi UFOs were taken seriously by many in the
years immediately following WWII, including by Canadian military
and intelligence officials (or at least seriously enough to
warrant investigation). I wrote the following column back in
August, 2005, for my blog - the original can be found at:


Best regards,

Paul Kimball


Canada and Flying Saucers, Part III [Enter... the Nazis?]

Rumours have existed for decades that the Germans, towards the
end of the Second World War, were working on creating a flying
saucer. Indeed, some fringe conspiracy theorists today maintain
that the Germans actually made at least one, and got it to work
(the follow-along contention often being that these projects
were taken over by the Americans and / or Soviets after the

While there is no doubt that the Germans were working on
advanced aircraft and missile design throughout the war, there
has never been any credible evidence that the claims of "Nazi
flying saucers" was anything other than a myth, in the purest
sense of the term (i.e. not true). Anyone who tells you
otherwise simply has no idea what they are talking about.

However, while we might know this now, things were much
different back in the early 1950s. It was an era of heightened
Cold War tension between the superpowers, but it was also an era
of intense competition between the western allies, particularly
the Anglo-American-Canadian triumvirate, for technological
advances. Finally, the myriad reports of UFOs being seen around
the world had gotten the attention of everyone - especially the
Air Force, both in the United States, and in Canada.

So, when a German came forward and claimed that he had knowledge
of a secret Nazi flying saucer program, the authorities, at
least in Canada, took him seriously.

In the late spring of 1952, a German immigrant to Canada
approached a former RCAF officer of his acquaintance, and told
him that he had knowledge of German flying saucer design and
production. The former officer reported this to the RCAF, which
arranged an interview with the German. On 21 June, 1952,
according to the formerly Secret interrogation report, the
German (referred to in the report as the "Source") was
interrogated at RCAF HQ in Ottawa by Squadron Leader G. A.
White, Flight Lieutenant H. Brooks, and a Mr. S. Shramshenko.
Group Captain N. W. Timmerman and Flying Officer H. P. Korntoff
sat in as observers.

Three things immediately stand out from this initial

First, the level of the officers involved. All were commissioned
officers, and two - White and Timmerman - were senior officers
(a Squadron Leader was the equivalent of a Major, and a Group
Captain the equivalent of a Colonel; a Flight Lieutenant was the
equivalent of a Captain, and a Flying Officer a 1st Lieutenant).
They were members of the Department of Air Intelligence. This
indicates that the RCAF took the claim, at least in the
beginning, seriously.

Second, the thoroughness of the interrogation. The source
provided his alleged full history, the supposed history of the
programs he had allegedly work on, and some of what he claimed
were his own design plans, which he stated were superior to the
original German plans. The fact that the officers didn't seem to
think much of his story shows that they knew their stuff. For
example, they immediately recognized that the plan the source
showed them was actually a conventional jet with a circular

Third, the lack of civilian involvement (other than Shramshenko,
who was possibly an interpreter, although this is a point that
needs to be confirmed). This was a matter that related directly
to flying saucers, and therefore national security. It occurred
after the creation of Project Second Story (of which Timmerman
was a member) earlier that year, and yet it was run entirely by
the Air Force.

The interrogators sent the source on his way, and that most
likely would have been the end of it, except two days later the
source contacted DAI and told them that he had not divulged all
that he knew about the flying saucer program, and that he had a
number of drawings that pertained to the construction of the
German flying saucer. The DAI determined that it could not
afford to ignore this information, and arranged for a second
interrogation later that day. Once again, it took place at Air
Force HQ in Ottawa. It was conducted by Timmerman, White, and
Brooks, with an unnamed civilian observer present.

This time, the officers could not immediately dismiss the new
information provided by the source - it appeared to them to be
outside their area of knowledge. Accordingly, they arranged for
a third interview, which would involve members of the National
Research Council who did have the knowledge to assess the new

This third - and final - interview took place later that day, at
the National Research Council offices in Ottawa. Squadron Leader
White represented DAI as an observer, but the questions this
time were asked by four experts - F. R. Thurston, Chief of the
Structure Laboratory at the NRC (in 1976, he would be awarded
the prestigious McCurdy Award by the Canadian Aeronautics and
Space Institute; see http://www.casi.ca/index.php?pg=awards); T.
Stephens, Chief of the Aerodynamics Laboratory at the NRC; A. H.
Hall, the Assistant Chief of the Structures Laboratory; and R.
A. Tyler, a research officer in gas dynamics at the NRC.
According to the report, they "thoroughly questioned" the source
on "all aspects of the design and technical detail of the
alleged flying saucer. At this point, under hard questioning by
scientific experts, it became clear that the source did not know
what he was talking about. As the report states:

"Source was, however, unable to answer with any accuracy,
questions pertaining to types of metals used, fuel used, how
various parts of the aircraft operated and/or their size, etc.
He was unable to answer many of the questions at all."

The NRC officials concluded that the source was a "thorough
liar," that he was "trying to bluff his way through the
interrogation," that he was "technically unqualified to have
such knowledge of aircraft structure or design," and that there
was "nothing new, technically or in design, in the plans
produced or information heard from the source." As a result, the
source was sent on his way, and the matter closed - although
neither the NRC officials nor the DAI officers ruled out the
possibility that such machines had existed, or the possibility
that they could be built (which, given some of the work the
Defence Research Board was involved in at that time, comes as no

What this episode demonstrates, yet again, is that the real
investigation of the UFO phenomenon in Canada was being run by
the Royal Canadian Air Force. When a potentially important
source of UFO information surfaced, it was DAI officers that
conducted the investigation, and then NRC scientists who were
consulted about the technical aspects.

It was not being run by the far too credulous Wilbert Smith, the
Senior Radio Regulations Engineer in the Air Services Section of
the Department of Transport, who at this time was working on an
interim report for his pet Project Magnet that s omehow managed
to conclude - without any evidence - that "saucers are real,"
and that they operated in a very precise manner.

After all, the Defence Research Board and the RCAF took the
subject of UFOs seriously.

Paul Kimball

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