UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Oct > Oct 28

Re: Scully Hoax FBI March 1950 Memo

From: Martin Shough <parcellular.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 16:45:32 -0000
Archived: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 13:04:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Scully Hoax FBI March 1950 Memo

>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:01:01 EDT
>Subject: Re: Scully Hoax FBI March 1950 Memo

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:19:32 -0700
>>Subject: Scully Hoax FBI March 1950 Memo

>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:50:42 EDT
>>>Subject: Scully Hoax FBI March 1950 Memo [was: UFO Researcher Set To Land In The MUB]


>>>The baloney about the US radar interferes with the controlling
>>>mechanism of the saucers in the March 1950 FBI memo comes
>>>straight out of the Wyandotte Echo story of January 1950 from
>>>car dealer Rudy Fick who got it from Coulter - Scully friend
>>>George Koehler, a radio station ad manager in Denver.

>>Your inference re the radar in regards to the propulsion systems
>>of UFOs would seem to indicate that you are privy to their
>>operation as to rule out the effect of high power radar beams
>>on said craft. I certainly would like to here how you arrived at
>>these conclusions.

>The fact the story of alleged radar beams interfering with
>saucer control systems can be traced to the same folklore story
>element in the Wyandotte Echo has nothing to do with whether
>the story element is true or not.

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but nowhere are any saucer "propulsion
>systems" mentioned by me, the FBI memo, or the Wyandotte Echo.

>As for the silly notion of so-called "high power" radar beams in
>the 1 megawatt range (my info on radars of that era) affecting
>the control systems _or_ propulsion of thousand megawatt (=
>gigawatt) and million megawatt (=terawatt) range interstellar
>spacecraft I suggest you read up on Stan Friedman's papers.
>It's like suggesting 4th of July sparklers won WWII.

Some Listers might still think that a megawatt sounds like a lot
of power. But it's worth remembering the steps involved in
between the transmitter stage and the arrival of the radar beam
on target. (Excuse the gross approximations that follow, but
they make the general point.)

If the peak power of a radar is a megawatt (typical of modern
ATC and TMA radars) this is the power reached at the peak of
each pulse, but each pulse lasts only in the order of a
millionth of a second. In order for the _average_ maintained
power to be approaching one megawatt there would obviously have
to be a million pulses per second. But there will only be in the
order of a thousand. So straight away you can see that the
average output power in the beam is in the order of kilowatts -
 a kW being about equal to the consumption of one bar of an old
electric fire.

But that's not all. This kW of radiated power is spread through
a huge volume of space, typically in these surveillance radars a
wedge a couple of degrees wide and maybe 30 degrees tall. The
equivalent area covered by that solid angle at range (say) 10
miles is about 1/5 of a square mile, so the average energy
density is clearly pretty tenuous. An object (say) 30ft in
diameter will intercept about 1/30,000th of that total energy
per unit time, so in other words the average power on-target is
in the order of 1/10 of a one Watt.

How can this be right? That tiny power then has to be reflected
from the target miles through the atmosphere and received back
at the radar. Yet radar can not only detect tiny things like
birds, insects and hailstones at incredible distances but
measures their distance from the radar to within millimetres
hundreds of times a second. Doesn't sound possible, yet it is
done every day with received powers in the order of one micro-
microwatt (10^-12Watt).

It's truly a miracle that radar works at all, the power levels
are so low. And talk of damage caused by "high power" radar
needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Another point is that most radars only illuminate a given target
for a fraction of a second once every antenna rotation, so we
could take off another order of magnitude from the average power
on target. But this is not the case for tracking radars, of
course, where the antenna stays on the target. And also these
radars have pencil beams, so the output energy is concentrated
in a smaller solid angle. On the other hand these tend to be
smaller, mobile dishes with lower peak powers and also need
excellent range accuracy which implies short pulse lengths. One
the whole similar arguments apply: The average energy on target
is small, and is not going to fry the circuitry or cook the

>>Additionally, although the article mentioned crashing through
>>the gate of a radar installation (the witness), does it in fact
>>state that high power radar beams caused it to crash?

>Yes it did, see what I said in the very next paragraph. The
>Wyandotte Echo article says that according to "Coulter"
>(Koehler) saucers "seem to invariably crash near radar
>installations" and so "it is surmised that they are attracted
>by radar, or possibly radar waves interfere with their control

>>>The Koehler story in Jan 1950 said radar waves interfere with
>>>their control systens. That's two months _before_ the FBI

Interfering with control systems is of course a different matter
that need have nothing whatever to do with power and is about
unwanted information in the signal. I suppose the suggestion is
that saucers are so confused by detecting simple, regular pulses
of radio energy that their autopilot-analogues don't know which
way is up any more and crash. But I find this hard to credit.
The EM spectrum is full of all kinds of broadcast radio
information from many sources, of which radar is only one, and
even in 1947 surely there were commercial and military radio and
radar sources all over a country like the US. Isn't it a bit odd
that they would crash in just those remote desert places where
EM pollution is probably at a minimum, rather than around big-
city areas where there might be a howling confusion of radio
noise, night and day?

Martin Shough

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp

Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com