UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Sep > Sep 29

Re: Forged Documents

From: Gildas Bourdais <bourdais.gildas.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:27:48 +0200
Archived: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:26:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Forged Documents

>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:02:42 -0300
>Subject: R: Forged Documents

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <bourdais.gildas.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:55:34 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Forged Documents

>>>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:13:38 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Forged Documents


>>>So now we have two possibilities. Lazar could be telling the
>>>truth, and the government could have falsified the records. Or
>>>Lazar could be lying, and the records are correct. How should we
>>>decide which of these possibilities really happened? Which one
>>>is true? What procedure, what kind of investigation would you
>>>recommend? What kind of evidence would satisfy you - and the
>>>rest of us - that one or the other possibility, finally, is
>>>the correct one? You're quick to denounce anyone who accepts
>>>possibility two, on the grounds that they haven't considered
>>>possibility one. But that doesn't prove that possibility one
>>>is really the truth. How can we actually determine that it is?

>>Here is another possibility:

>>Bob Lazar may have told his story, more or less, as he
>>remembered it, but his memory may have been altered, to feed
>>him a dose of disinformation.

>>Actually, he admitted that he may have been manipulated. In
>>other words, he may have been a "useful idiot", as  Jacques
>>Vallee would say.

>>But, if this is the case, it does not mean that all what he saw
>>and 'learned' was necessarily false. We find the same intricacy
>>regarding the MJ-12 documents - completely false, or half false,
>>and then half true?

>>The real world is not just black and white. It has many shades

>Please can we stop lumping all the MJ-12 documents together?

>One roll of film sent from NM to CA had the EBD and TF memos.

>The Cutler Twining memo was found at the National Archives.

>The SOM 1.01 was on film sent to Don Berliner from Wisconsin.

>There are a huge load of documents disbursed by Tim Cooper.

>I think I have clearly established that many if not all of the
>latter are fraudulent and the other ones are genuine. If _you_
>don't agree, then please put some facts on the table... Specific
>reasons for denying the case I make in TOP SECRET/MAJIC and in
>2 articles on my website.

>If you have some new data on Bob Lazar, let us see
>it... You know, trivia like diplomas, resumes, etc.

Stan, Jerry and the List,

I keep thinking that the question of the authenticity of the
MJ-12 documents is still very intricate.

I am quite willing to believe you, Stan, on the authenticity of
the three documents that you support, but I note that not
everybody does so. Does Jerry Clark support you on that? And
Kevin Randle? It seems they don't.

I don't know the details well ebbough to have a definite opinion
myself, but I am impressed by all the work you have done.

My impression, globaly, is that there are a number of other
documents, labelled MJ-12, and also a number of testimonies,
such as those gathered by Leonard Stringfield and others, which
may be entirely false or partially true even if proven false on
some aspects.

The idea that I tend to support, is that there may be a mixed
bag of, either purely negative disinformation or hoaxes, or more
subtle actions designed to help a "gradual lifting of secrecy",
with the precaution of always leaving room for "plausible

Gildas Bourdais

Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast



[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp

Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com