UFO UpDates
A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
'Its All Here In Black & White'
Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2007 > Sep > Sep 29

Re: Who's The Patron Saint Around Here?

From: Claude Mauge <claudemauge.nul>
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:35:57 +0200 (CEST)
Archived: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:48:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Who's The Patron Saint Around Here?


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:50:37 EDT
>Subject: Who's The Patron Saint Around Here?

>Is there a Patron Saint of abductees?

There was at least a proposal by Jacques Vallee in his 1988 book,
Dimensions A Casebook of Alien Contact. In its annex 1 where
he presents the classic account by Agobard in the IXth century,
Vallee writes indeed: "I suggest Saint Agobard as the Patron
Saint of abducted witnesses" [my translation from the French
translation of the book].

It is however possible to question this proposal. First because
Agobard was a debunker of sorts in his days. And second because
he is not an official Saint in the Catholic church, only a
'regional' saint in the area of the city of Lyons, where Agobard
had been Archbishop, and also until the XIXth century in the
Saintes area, north of Bordeaux, where he died.

The ufological literature often mentions Agobard because he
introduced the name of Magonia, the supposed aerial region from
which the cloud-ships come. Several authors give fair accounts
of the story, but others are not as cautious.

The main problem arises from the fact that there are in fact two
somewhat different stories. The first, and true, one is
Agobard's own text De grandine et tonitruis - On Hail And
Thunder - he criticizes the beliefs about the storm-makers and
Magonia, and he explains how he saved the life of four persons
who were to be stoned by the population because they were said
to have fallen from an airship. Most of Agobard's manuscripts
had long been lost during the Midde Ages, and they surfaced
again shortly before 1605 when they were published for the first
time by Papire Masson.

In 1670, Abbe Nicolas de Montfaucon de Villars published Le
Comte de Gabalis, which became a classic book in occultism, but
which is probably a spoof about Rosicrucians. Montfaucon
mentions the Lyons episode; however he mixes it with an alleged
summoning of the Sylphs by the cabalist Zedechias - whose
existence is very uncertain - and with the presence of saboteurs
sent by Grimaldus, an enemy of Charlemagne. Agobard indeed
mentions these alleged saboteurs, but in another passage totally
unconnected with the Lyons captives; and Zedechias is absent in
his text.

Ufologists often date the Lyons episode in 840, but this is the
date of Agobard's death. Present-day historians think that De
grandine et tonitruis, was written at the beginning of Agobard's
office, and the events could thus have taken place a few years
before 815 or 820. Agobard does not explicitely state that the
four persons he saved had been allegedly abducted in the cloud-
 ship, but this interpretation is not fully unreasonable. Other
people have claimed far more wild things, for instance that the
Lyons event had been a UFO crash or that the time had a
different 'speed' aboard the cloud-ship. There is not a bit of
evidence for such claims.

The best ufological presentations about the story are Magonia:
A Re-evaluation, by Jean-Louis Brodu in Fortean Studies Vol.
2, 1995, p. 198-215, and two papers in French by the same author
and by Frederic Dumerchat in Ovni-Presence No 53, July
1994, p. 4-16. A full academic English translation of On Hail
And Thunder is available on line at:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/Agobard-OnHailandThunder.html


Regards,

Claude Mauge



Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/


[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
This Month's Index |

UFO UpDates Main Index

UFO UpDates - Toronto - Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp


Archive programming by Glenn Campbell at Glenn-Campbell.com