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Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2008 > Oct > Oct 1

Re: Blanchard, Lytle And Roswell

From: Viktor Golubik <Diverge247.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:26:54 EDT
Archived: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:41:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Blanchard, Lytle And Roswell

>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:59:34 -0300
>Subject: Re: Blanchard, Lytle And Roswell

>>From: Viktor Golubik <Diverge247.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:22:44 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Blanchard, Lytle And Roswell

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:00:38 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Blanchard, Lytle And Roswell


>>>Balsa wood is used as a filler; it has no strength and doubles as
>>>an airspace between two outer layers of laminated carbon-fiber
>>>cloth skins. It's called composite construction.

>>Hi Don,

>>Yes, composite construction has a long history, whether it was
>>the intended purpose or not.

>>It was clearly used as a structural element in this application.

>>It was used historically as a light weight structural component
>>in surfboards and has a history.

>>It is relevant to bring up it's improved strength since it was in
>>contact with other materials that would clearly do this: The
>>questioning did not challenge nor clarify enough situational

>Balsa wood has no strength to weight ratio. It needs a binding or
>cloaking agent to give it any structural strength.

You are joking, right? Don, you need to read the witness
testimony and my previous posts. Much of this has already been
discussed - read directly below: these are not my words quoted.

>>"Balsa wood has a long history of being an excellent core
>>material offering high compression properties, high shear
>>strength, and great fatigue endurance. It has been used in a wide
>>variety of applications ranging from recreational boats to high
>>performance wind turbine blades."

>Yeah, not so much these days.

Yes, but see the Humvee example...

>>>Early on, Balsa was used in the construction of kit-built/home-
>>>built private aircraft - which incidentally led the way with the
>>>aircraft companies following along 10-20 years later - wings,
>>>flaps, horizontal stabilisers, elevators, etc.

>>>My CP 328 Super Emeraude airplane's flaps and horizontal
>>>stabiliser are constucted in this manner.

>>I've built and flown remote controlled gliders and airplanes. A
>>thin coat of plastic film also adds tremendous strength.

>What do yo mean by plastic film? Certainly not a binding agent
>used to glue layers together. On it's own the binding agent has
>no strength. If that were so more aircraft would be built using
>it as a structural material rather than as a filler agent over
>which to form the coverings I mentioned above including
>fiberglass for boats, etc.

>Just painting it with varnish -available in 1947 - would have not
>given it any strength whatsoever.

see below

>>Such film prevents the balsa from reaching it's fracture point and
>>serves to evenly distribute an applied force over an arching type
>>bend: glue, tape, paper, and/or foil can serve a similar purpose

>Again you are not saying varnish but some film; such as what?

Adhesive tape, reinforced Aluminum foil, and intervening glue

>>>This type of construction is extremely light and very tough. Most
>>>modern airliners have a large percentage of their bodies and
>>>control surfaces constructed of composites. But Balsa was
>>>abandoned in favor of foam-core - polyurethane, polystyrene,
>>>diviney cell, last-a-foam and styrofoam-small cell.

>>This was 60 years ago and is clearly_SMALL_scale.

>No this is present day and not the least small scale. Balsa wood
>mind you is small scale.

Clarifying: what I was referring to was that these_radar
targets_are small. You were providing larger scale examples.

>>>Balsa wood is too expensive for even small scale private and
>>>commercial applications, so high density foam core is now used -
>>>see previous paragraph - a high quality styro-type-foam which is
>>>not the stuff styrofoam cups or home insulation is made of. The
>>>foam is shaped and then the skins are laid up over the foam and
>>>then vacume bagged.

>>>Kevlar, Ceramic, Graphite, E and S Glasses and other fiber
>>>products can stop bullets but the foam or balsa-wood filler in
>>>the sandwich would not stop a straight pin. Hence the fiber
>>>application in a Humvee and armored tanks.

>>The amount used was clearly not that expensive, not to mention,
>>that it was obviously employed. As far as I can recall, Cavitt
>>used the term "Bamboo" to describe it... and he also rejected
>>that he had seen muted lavender flowered tape... on the elements.

>Again I was referring to present day uses of balsa not the smaal
>amounts used in the construction of radar reflectors and model


>>It is clearly used as a light weight structural element in the
>>humvee. In fact, one can make very strong, alternating-grain,
>>plywood from Balsa.

>Alternating-grain, plywood from Balsa is not what was used in
>radar reflectors. As a plywood, it does not come close to be as
>strong as - for example - finnish plywood used in both aviation
>and marine applications. Finnish ply [as an example] is made from
>spruce and poplar etc. Marine applications will use mahogany. No
>one would trust their lives to balsa wood as a structural agent.

My point is to illustrate that Balsa is not as flimsy as you make
it appear.

>>>Finally, you would not see the Balsa wood nor recognize it as so
>>>between the layers of cloth. Additionall, carbon dust is added to
>>>the "prime" coat of sealent to defeat the damaging effect of
>>>sunlight on polymer fibers and the bonding agents used to bond
>>>the fiber layers together.

>>It is unclear what was done and these appear to have been made in
>>New York and brought there. This wood may have been pretreated in
>>some fashion or bought that way. The exact glue that was used is
>>also unclear.

>I think you are reaching for an X-factor that did not exist by
>introducing some unknown glue or varnish.

X-factors like - early witness testimony?

There is more than glue involved, we don't know what glue was
used, and wood glue will re-soften in rain (moist conditions) and
bend/comply more easily.

>>>You can crush Balsa wood between your fingers it is so low-
>>>density in nature. But it supports long enough to accept
>>>coverings and vacume bagging. Since varnishs and such have no
>>>strength on their own it would not support Balsa as a
>>>strengthener once coated. It's only value would be water proofing
>>>and or decorative not structural other than in the reflector
>>>applications used on weather balloons and the Mogal arrays where
>>>structural strength was not a consideration.

>>You cannot easily compress 5/16 - 3/8 inch Balsa wood between
>>two fingers in such a manner. Glues will only harden the surface
>>making it less likely to do so.

>Again it might make it harder but the glue or varnish has no
>shear or tension advantage.

Thanks, Balsa Wood does nicely... and we know it was attached to
other materials. Clearly, decorative tape was available then too.

>>>Just one observation. Back in the 1920s to the 1960s [even now]
>>>kids [and grown-ups] built model airplanes out of Balsa wood.

>>It was not as common then as it is now - see ebay. Nor, was
>>Aluminum foil (Reynolds Wrap,1947).

>Oh yes it was. They were wrapping gum with "tin" foilin the 30s.
>And aluminum foil was not new. It is simply aluminum stiock
>rolled to super thing layers. This technology had been around for
>years and was an outgrowth of aviation aluminum which is layered
>up from various alloys which either gives it strong shear or
>breaking qualities from. the most common is 2024-T3 used in many
>applications because of its ability to twist and endure flexing
>and vibration. There are many grades between that and 6061-T6
>which is commonly used in military aircraft applications. It's
>very strong but will fail under predictable conditions which can
>be avoided.

Aluminum foil was not common in households until the introduction
of Reynolds Wrap. That is my point, not that it wasn't commonly
available. Yes, it was also reinforced and layered with other
materials (read Roswell testimony).

>Anyway this pressure layering of aluminum sheet to create various
>properties has been around since the mid 1920s.

>>>Many of these builders ended up in the airforce or commercial or
>>>private aviation. It was commonly known, not a rare model
>>>construction material.

>>>I find it hard to believe that Marcel or anyone else associated
>>>with aviation would not know it when they saw it.

>>They clearly use this word repeatedly... and we have to keep in
>>mind that their testimony came 32 years after the events -
>> contamination and exaggerations may have already been

>I doubt that.

Read the testimony... pretend you are for the first time and with
an open mind.

>>Yes, and that is why we need to review the evidence and early
>>witness testimony. It is apparent that tape recorded interviews
>>are lurking somewhere - that may resolve or bring greater
>>definition to these material descriptions. As it stands, we have
>>some ambiguity and a Mogul balloon train is enough to quash it.

>If you can prove one was there and stretch credibility as to air
>force personnel not knowing aluminum foil or weather balloons.
>The latter is ignored BTW. Neoprene ballons would have been
>collapsed and laying around on the desert floor and very obvious.

They would have been breaking down, changing color (black), and
turning brittle. Clearly, not a balloon any longer.

>>Do you feel that this completely supports the existence of Extra
>>Terrestrial life? Unfortunately, I'm similarly observant that it
>>does not meet such standards given the resolution of this
>>testimony - when faced with the nature of the similarities, the
>>hype then/now, and coincidence of events.

>Why would I think it supports ET life?

What else would you want me to think? Are you going to deny that
you believe in the Alien Body stories too? Again, read Bill
Brazel's testimony and you'll find out were the body issue was
most likely introduced.

And, you obviously think highly of mundane things and can't bring
all the facts under one roof: Realize the greater coincidences
staring you down and you refusing to look.

>>Remember, Bessy Brazel recalls Mogul-like items not mentioned in
>>the Roswell Incident (testimony struck) and Bill Brazel describes
>>a synthetic fiber string.

>How would Brazel come up with synthetic string? Nylon string is
>still string. It was used all through the war.

Read his testimony and you will be able to figure that out for yourself.
This as an excellent example of early testimony ignorance. How long
has it been in the literature already?

>>If Mogul Balloons were not coming down in this area, clearly the
>>case would take on a different fortifying level of strength in
>>favor or something highly unusual.

>Plural. Again, nothing different here than weather balloons so
>why would experienced Air Force personnel be in awe of balsa wood
>and neoprene balloons which they had seen every day.

They had not seen large scale remains of this magnitude before and
clearly Marcel nor Cavitt launched them as a routine (see other
related comments)


>I'm really not interested enough in Roswell to get into what
>Brazel experienced or saw. My interest is in air force personnel
>suddenly getting excited about weather balloons. I don't know
>what happened at Roswell but the Mogal Balloon theory has been
>shot down ad nauseum for ten years now, chiefly because one can't
>be proved to even be in the area.

If your not interested in the evolution of the story, then there
is little else for you to learn.

>Anyway I put my two cents in there for what it's worth re balsa
>and aluminum foil. Seems damn silly to me that no one on an air
>force base would have not said, "What's all the excitement about,
>it's just a bunch of goddamn weather ballons."

Don, read what text is available from the earliest witnesses.

>As for being secret. The purpose behind Mogal might have been
>secret but not the trains themselves. The AF could have just
>claimed that they were testing new weather balloon technology to
>map the Jet Stream or something. The whole Mogal explanation is
>horse manure if you ask me.

As I said before, they would have no idea what was floating
around in the ether - would have taken every available precaution
to shut down any possible leak, prevent talk from getting into
the papers again, and quiet the rumors quickly. This was gaining
world wide attention, remember.

>There were any number of techs around that base that could load,
>arm and deliver an atomic bomb in a sophistigated aircraft
>maintained by well trained techs at abase loaded with other
>techniciians who serviced radar bomb sights, radar, avionics,
>launched weather observation balloons but they couldn't identify
>a bunch of weather balloons. The whole idea is absurd.

Have you spent five years investigating this case and
interviewing witnesses. I didn't think so.


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